Registered: Dec 2003
Location: napoleon, ohio
Posts: 744

Im not pretending to know anything about pups off frozen seamen and want answers based on experience. Ive had several conversations with fellow hunters about the ability of frozen seamen to throw the same quality of pups that was being produced when the sire was alive? There seems to be a certain level of doubt that frozen is effective. Can anyone comment on your experience and back that up with facts about winners or titled dogs off seamen?

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Englewood TN
Posts: 452

Well frozen semen is a tough thing. Very very few pup statistically turn into big time stud dogs and there are relatively few pups out of frozen semen today, which drastically reduces their numbers. As far as the genetic makeup, it should remain unchanged and as a result they should be able to produce the same quality dog with frozen as is produced with normal. As far as hard proof, I can't say I have any that have won big time hunts but I also can't say I follow it. Hoping to push the young dog in my signature in some hunts soon, but for the most part he will just be a pleasure dog. I don't think he had any genetic fall off due to frozen semen.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1077

It's not scientifically possible for a semen pup to be inferior or superior because it's the product of frozen semen.

I had a pup off Hardwood Patch semen recently that, to me, was nearly exceptional. Finished him to a Nt Ch without any difficulty, and should have Granded him. I have no experience with the lie breeding pups off Patch, but they couldn't have been a whole lot better. I think the post above pretty well nailed it. The odds of an exceptional pup popping up are gonna be better with ten litters a year, than they will be with one litter every ten years.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: napoleon, ohio
Posts: 744

Thanks for your input guys, i am looking at making a cross next year using frozen seamen and hope this post can erase the doubt in my mind

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 208

I have a male out of Rat,that has some pups on the ground that are looking really good. He is dual grand and will be in the Grand and SETWD we will have to see were he finishs. But you can follow him on this stud page.His name is WARRIOR.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1701

I always wonder. If we are talking about genes. If the genes from frozen semen work to make toes, ears, eyes, color etc.. why would the genes not produce traits needed to tree coon? I expect
there is no difference. Time will tell.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 243

There's a lot of dogs winning off frozen semen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this past years UKC world champion was off frozen semen?

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location:
Posts: 225

quote:

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Originally posted by Tyson McComber yeah that's what I was gonna say Main Street Roy semen!!
There's a lot of dogs winning off frozen semen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this past years UKC world champion was off frozen semen?

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

A redbone semen pup

Nt Ch in 3 hunts at 15 months old

Grnt at 26 months old

High scoring redbone male at 2 yrs old 2012 ukc world hunt!!!

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Last edited by Larry D Walker on 12-21-2013 at 11:52 AM

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: candler nc
Posts: 1404

95% of reproduction rating is a numbers game now a days. It's easier for a dog to have 50 grand nights on the ground when the have 1500 pups than it is to have 50 grands and 200 pups. Think of it this way. If track man had only sired 30 live breeding pups and 2500 semen pups and he could have remain advertised and popular then the reproduction rating should stay the same...... Semen remains the same weather live breeding or AI. what changes is the amount of pup produced. Think about this (statistically wrong I know) there is 1 semen litter for ever 500 live bred litter. So of coarse 1 grand semen pup out of a litter of 10 doesn't sound as good as 50 grands out of the 500 or so live bred pups. I bet that if you got hard copy's from UKC I bet statically semen reproduction ratings are close if not better than live breeding ratings.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Faribault, Minnesota
Posts: 838

Do Not be afraid of frozen seamen !!! Had a litter out of Bone Collector frozen, had eight pups, one did not live. All seven are one year old today and all seven running and treeing. I have a frozen seamen pup out of Bellar's Psycho first hunt was last weekend of February and was Grand Nite Champion last weekend of May at two years old, I am not talking just back yard hunts either some of the events were major national events. Don't worry, I've done frozen seamen several times and the numbers were litters of: 9 - 8 - 11 - 9 - 8 - 8 and one did not settle and we took a chance the seamen was not to good at the time of breeding and knew this before hand just took the gamble. Best of luck to you and if you have any questions please give me a call. Alan Kalal 612-251-3184

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

I was suspicious to. Hardly ever see any winning much less make studs. Just recently I had one off harry semen. Now to me he was a nice un. A track driver. Little slow to locate right now and again but was getting better. When he planted himself. You saw that coon. So I was getting over my suspicion. Then I come home one day. Look down and he's his same ol self raised up on pen looking at me. 2 hrs later I go to feed. He's dead. Id take another like him right now though! Had just turned 3.

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Registered: Jun 2006
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....GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel, semen.
..Male pup, Owner James Guess
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....GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel, semen
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....GrNtCh Stylish Whitey



I also owned Due Gn Tj's Stylish Lipper, out of Lipper Semen.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Sullivan IL.
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95% of reproduction rating is a numbers game now a days. It's easier for a dog to have 50 grand nights on the ground when the have 1500 pups than it is to have 50 grands and 200 pups. Think of it this way. If track man had only sired 30 live breeding pups and 2500 semen pups and he could have remain advertised and popular then the reproduction rating should stay the same...... Semen remains the same weather live breeding or AI. what changes is the amount of pup produced. Think about this (statistically wrong I know) there is 1 semen litter for ever 500 live bred litter. So of coarse 1 grand semen pup out of a litter of 10 doesn't sound as good as 50 grands out of the 500 or so live bred pups. I bet that if you got hard copy's from UKC I bet statically semen reproduction ratings are close if not better than live breeding ratings.

Marshall said it all!

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: north dakota
Posts: 2363

We have a 3 year old off lipper. Outstanding hound. 4 hunts entered ..4wins... 2013 ND state champ. High scoring dog both nights. 775 plus 525 circle 0 minus fri. Night 725 plus no minus sat. NO LEAVES...NTCH LIPLOCK LIZZY. ..the lipper semen she is off was 27 years old....

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Registered: Jul 2010
Location: IOWA
Posts: 510

Nick , there was walker dog out in western iowa that did a bunch of winning in pkc this year and he also won ukc walker days I believe.....I don't think it makes a diff if there from frozen or live semen but some people seem to think so but u also got to remember for every frozen semen pup there like 1000 that were off live semen so its hard to compare if you kinda get where im goin

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

It probably won't work. Go ahead and make that cross, but I'm sure they won't amount to a hill of beans. Go ahead and send them all to me. I can work wonders on a seamen pup. But only I know how to do it. Lol

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: napoleon, ohio
Posts: 744

Jeff, you know no matter what I do it never works out lol

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: napoleon, ohio
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Top

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: West Plains, Missouri
Posts: 259

Something else to think about is we do not have the same females as we had back then. Although it is hardly ever noticed but the female is a part of that reproductive system and counts towards what the dog will turn out like. It isn't always just the stud dog.

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Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Western, NC
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quote:

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Originally posted by NE IOWA B&T MAN
Nick , there was walker dog out in western iowa that did a bunch of winning in pkc this year and he also won ukc walker days I believe.....I don't think it makes a diff if there from frozen or live semen but some people seem to think so but u also got to remember for every frozen semen pup there like 1000 that were off live semen so its hard to compare if you kinda get where im goin

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: wyandotte,ok
Posts: 2114

nick a friend of mine here in wyandotte has some dogs off rat semen and they are nice and they finished out pretty darn quick man. I know alot of people in the breed don't believe we should breed to frozen semen but it works so why not do it. but if it was me a would find a vet and have it surgically done that way you have i higher percentage rate of having puppies then with the traditional AI method. it must be something really good for you to go through this much thought about it.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Anderson co Tennessee
Posts: 1944

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry D Walker
A redbone semen pup

Nt Ch in 3 hunts at 15 months old

Grnt at 26 months old

High scoring redbone male at 2 yrs old 2012 ukc world hunt!!!

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

He suits me and he looks better in the dark when you unsnap him

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Indiana

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Registered: Jun 2011
Location: Monticello, Georgia
Posts: 246

quote:

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Originally posted by CGRADR07
Something else to think about is we do not have the same females as we had back then. Although it is hardly ever noticed but the female is a part of that reproductive system and counts towards what the dog will turn out like. It isn't always just the stud dog.

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Last edited by mike thomason on 01-16-2014 at 03:23 AM

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