Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 936

North American Free Trade Agreement, needs to be repealed, before all of our factories, and jobs end up in Mexoco. I was talking to a fellow in Indiana the other day, and he said, that his factory, was closeing, it's doors. And moveing to Mexico, for good. The people who own the factories, democrats and republicans, don't understand. That if they continue on their present rate of closeing plants and moveing to Mexico. There ain't going to be anybody left, with any money to buy their products.

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J.B.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Coshocton County, Ohio on wills creek
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quote:

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Originally posted by JOE H BROOKS
North American Free Trade Agreement, needs to be repealed, before all of our factories, and jobs end up in Mexoco.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1187

Don't you know that it is President Bush's fault not NAFTA? LOL Just Kidding. I agree with you on NAFTA. You know, Ross Perot warned us about NAFTA.

Ken Grant

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3232

As an Industrial Tool Manufactures Rep I want to say that last year alone Ohio lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 manufacturing jobs. Indiana - 99,000.
Mr. Brooks might not have had all his I's and T's crossed but he's correct in the fact we are loosing manufacturing jobs at an alarming rate due to Nafta. Mr Eberwine Farms is incorrect for coming on here and ridiculing him for spelling and the misconception of our jobs leading to Mexico. (their going mostly to China now)
Take the time to visit http://www.sam-usa.org/ I think you all will understand just what Mr. Brooks meant.

Oh and Joe good luck with your pups you have advertised, they are well bred.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 936

MEXOCO is one of those things, when your finger hits the wrong button. But no i don't think i'm wrong, about repealing NAFTA. Course it may be that you are a billionare, and wanting to move your factory, to Mexico. In that case to keep from paying your employees, a fair wage, say $12.00 an hour, you want to pay them $3.00 a day. The only problem with that is the fact, that people have to make a liveing. And the more, the better paying jobs, go south, the less, you will be able, to earn. Because you usually, will take , what ever job you can find, until you can find a better one. If you bought your house for $90,000.00, based on your income of $60,000.00 a year and your job goes south. Guess what, you ain't gona be able to pay for that house, cause you ain't working, and the best you can find is working 2 shifts at MacDonald's. Cause your old job is in Mexoco, and we have cheap labor comeing into this country, from, guess where Mexico? And they think when their'r makeing $5.50 per hour, their rich. And it lowers the standard of liveing in this country, and it also lowers the amount of money that we americans, can earn.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Wyoming
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Not to mention that most of the money they make over here(the Mexicans)ends up going back to Mexico. We have our jobs taken and then our money doesn't even stay here.


Ken Grant

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
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When I started selling tools 10 years ago I sold nothing but USA made. I cant hardly do this anymore if I want to make a living.
I remember in 1990 going thru collage hearing "its going to be a world market someday" yea its a world market today but for the other countries.
I suppose the goal is to get rid of low paying factory jobs and replace them with high end educational jobs. That was the plan, but its not working.

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Registered: Sep 2003
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Posts: 385

The goal of capitalism is to make maximum profit..employess are a cost factor and the lower the cost factor the greater the profit potential... this economic system has no heart-soul-feeling and is only driven by the goal of making the most $$$ possible and not employing people at the highest wage possible...it is an international and not a nationalistic orientation.. in a free market system there would be no trade barriers or tarrifs and only the most efficient would survive...capitalism is economic survival of the fittest and NAFTA is a component of this paradigm... of course as the capitalist maximixes profit unemployment and its grave consequences are just a by-product and function of the system operating to achieve its goals... sad, but unfortunately true, the profit factor knows no race-ethnicity-national boundary only to lower all costs and maximize all profits which may well mean that unemployment in the great u.s.a may rise and wages fall...hope I'm wrong and the opposite occurs, but that does not appear to be the case....

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Carthage, MS
Posts: 201

I agree with Ken totally. But there are to many big companies such as the one my dad worked for with too much money invested in other countries now to let NAFTA get repealed.

And that is very sad but very true.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3232

Your not wrong Doc. We have raised our cost of living so high we need high wages to survive (comfortably)(just to coon hunt lol)
Just look at the cost of a competition hunt now days lol

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1187

What needs to be done to offset the cheaper wages in other countries is tax breaks and other incentives for companies.


Ken Grant

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Registered: Sep 2003
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most corporations do have tax breaks and incentives that many use to expand technology and lower employment or relocate it off-shore, employment gone and the tax base as well goes to non-taxed safe havens.. the average ceo in usa corporations makes over 500X what the average employee in that corporation earns, this could be why unemployment is on the rise in order to pay the coporate mogul...capitalism is now doing what Adam Smith predicted it would.. sometimes the needs of the nation and its people should trump pure profit, maybe some of those tall dollars could be used to improve health care-education- energy technology... wishful thinking, but a worthy goal...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1187

What I meant is for the incentives to be to keep Americans employed. If they keep jobs here they would receive the incentives.


Ken Grant

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Great State of Tennessee
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Do you guys really not know that it was Bush Sr who came up with the idea of forming nafta with canada and mexico. But as usual lets blame it on clinton.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Carthage, MS
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he might have come up with it but he darn shure didnt do it.

If you want to get into that game. It was Slick Willy who compromised the military and who also ignored threats about 9/11.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Great State of Tennessee
Posts: 2555

scc20 I agree clinton should have had a heads up like the rest of them. If bush sr would have won the election we still would have had nafta to pass. Nafta was the first thing clinton got passed AFTER he tried to put a few other things through but the republicans would not pass anything he tried to put through. I just get sick of hearing nafta was clintons fault when in reality nafta was bush sr baby. Part of his new world order he was working on. Remember bush sr had like a 80% approval rating the night of the election. He woke up without a job. I read somewhere that he cried and said it hurt to be rejected. I also won a free fish dinner when I bet a fellow that as long as clinton kept his mouth shut he would be the next president. They all called me crazy.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 510

I agree with NAFTA that it has to go. This current president which he has down some good (Not knocking down the Republicans) for this country, However he supports NAFTA. Now before you folks get into saying, Yea but he never started it. Well, this is true Bill Clinton did this. I am glad that I supported someone for president that told Bill Clinton it was wrong to put NAFTA in because it would cost tons of jobs. That was Dick Gephardt. John Kerry/John Edward's will do away with NAFTA, and guess who we be our Secretary of Labor if Kerry/Edwards wins. The only person that stood up to his own president , own party, and told him NAFTA was wrong for the working people. That is Dick Gephardt. Gephardt I have got to know personally and their is nothing more personal to him then working class people of this nation. His face turns red and truly is a passion to him. When you talked to him about trade he is great. I hope if Kerry/Edwards win and I am sure after Gephardt get Secretary of Labor one of Gephardt central issues when he was running for president will become law. That is an International Labor Association. Every country in this world would join this Labor Association. The Japan delegate would say to get our people out of poverty we need maybe a minimum wage of $3.50 cents an hour. China's delegate would maybe need a minimum wage of $3.25 an hour, Mexico delegate would maybe need a minimum wage of $2.50 an hour. Otherwise every country would have a minimum wage above poverty. This would bring there standard of living in each country where they can purchase the items that they make, and help their own country economy. The only way we are going to solve trade issues is to bring the standards up in every country in the world. In return America factories would not have a reason to go to another country because they would not have the real cheap labor. Also, it would stop people from coming into our country looking for work, because then they can stay home with their own familles and help their own country. Like I say their is good republicans and good democrats. Their is bad democrats and bad republicans. Together we should respect each other and not tear the other party apart because both parties make up the great United States of America. So I have been asked who I am going to vote for. With someone I know that we change the trade issues with being Secretary of Labor for the working people of this nation. Folks until you visit with Dick Gephardt one on one which I have, about trade, and how to fix the inbalance of trade in this nation, you walk away saying he knows what he is talking about. I going to vote for Kerry/Edwards.

Last edited by John Ferrari on 08-05-2004 at 03:49 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1187

{So I have been asked who I am going to vote for. With someone I know that we change the trade issues with being Secretary of Labor for the working people of this nation. Folks until you visit with Dick Gephardt one on one which I have, about trade, and how to fix the inbalance of trade in this nation, you walk away saying he knows what he is talking about. I going to vote for Kerry/Edwards.}

So your vote goes for someone that "may" be the Secretary of Labor? I thought this was a Presidential election.



{So I have been asked who I am going to vote for.}

Why has no one asked me who I am going to vote for? LOL just kidding.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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Well, all I will say is I am about 95 % sure it will happen. enuff said
John

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1187

{Well, all I will say is I am about 95 % sure it will happen. enuff said
John}

Oh. OK. Sounds like a plan. Does Gephardt have a job for you?


Ken Grant

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: bainbridge ny
Posts: 812

i have met gephardt at a labor union convention a few years back and totaly agree with what you say about him if the democrats ran him for president he would have my vote however they aren't running him who the democrats are running makes it pretty scary
i just hate to think of those little chinese kids stomping on all those tomatoes to make heinz catsup for most of the heinz factories have been moved offshore

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Carthage, MS
Posts: 201

john like I said earlier no matter how hard Gephardt tries the big money from corp. will not let it happen.

Dont get me wrong. I HATE NAFTA, my dad lost his job and it has ruined my hometown and State. But the big money will not let it go away. JMO

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

I really like some of the comments I see on this post. With the WTO, we're restricted as far as imposing tariffs. I'd raise corporate tax rates in the U.S. and offset them with EMPLOYMENT TAX CREDITS in an effort to retain U.S. jobs.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 385

some interesting thoughts and ideas.. Gephardt is a good man who has the interests of this nation and its people as a priority.. but afraid that the big $$$ that supports the political process may well cancel the needs of the people... if this were not true this the greatest and richest of all counties would have a national health care system that meets needs of the people, an educational program that provdes learning opportunities to build a future, a jobs program that provides jobs and not just a subsidation of further copororate wealth, an energy policy and program that ends the dependence on foreign fossil fuel allowing our nation to be free of this enslavement, and finally lower the national debt-end it, get big $$$ out of politics, go to non-graduated income or national excise tax to replace the millions of pages of tax law now in place and convulated by the irs-stabalize social security-not mortage it... not sure that under present conditions that either Busch or Kerry have the intent-inclination or ability to do this, easy to say, very hard to implement...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: "The Mountain State" Where it's uphill both ways!
Posts: 3127

Just wanted to add my 2 cents,,,,,,,,I work for and have worked for American Woodmark Corp. for 16 yrs... The largest manufacturer of cabinetry for kitchens and Baths,,we sell under many names,,Timberlake,Home Depot,Lowes,,etc. The company operates 13 manufacturing facilities in Arizona, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Minnesota, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia, and various service centers across the country.They are VERY employee oriented,,and just recently released the 2007 vision,,or where our company wants to be in 2007..... The big thing within the company is all the jobs being lost to the Chinese,,this is a very sore spot with us,,soooo..they have vowed we will not be outdone by the Chinese,,they are currently building 2 more plants in this general area,,with modern never before done techniques,equipment..etc..just so we can say,,hey China ,,,ain't gonna happen here!!!
Just trying to add a lil positive side to this,,,,cause the thought of it sure turns my stomach!!

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