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I would like to know if anyone has ever heard of any study to try and isolate the treeing gene in a dogs DNA, or does anyone think it is a gene that causes some hounds to tree and others -from the same litter - not to. I'm opening myself up here for some real one liners, but there it is. Any facts out there? My research has turned up nada.

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Some dogs have it and others don't its all in how there trained and the smarts the dog has. Best I can say

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that would be very interesting. I feel it would be a combination of many genes comeing together in alotta different combinations.

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Might try searching info on genetics concerning search & rescue type dogs. Probably be more info on them. I know they're not tree dogs but seems like if they can spot certain traits with those type dogs I'd think the same could be done with tree dogs. Idk

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i would think they could tell by DNA testing but dont know it has been done at all. DNA is done in cows to tell if they have genes for milk, butterfat, protein, type, and many other genes. it probably isnt any differant with dogs. That would be nice information for breeding being able to look at a peice of paper telling you what traits the dog has in his genetics and being able to match it up with another dog for a better cross.

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Due to the fact that treeing has many different facets from one dog to the next I would suspect it is a multi-gene trait.

I have to respectfully disagree with it has to do with training.

I could see the level or intensity of treeing being influenced by prey drive.

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quote:

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[.

I have to respectfully disagree with it has to do with training.

I could see the level or intensity of treeing being influenced by prey drive. [/B]

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I believe they "bark treed" because they can't go any farther on the track.
sure they learn from track experience that coon climb trees.
but I have seen dogs tree at the edge of a river where the coon went in because they can't or wont continue because they cant or wont swim. seen em tree on a high tight fence where the coon crossed. they don't tree there cause they think the coon is up. you throw em over and they don't check up on the other side of the fence, they continue on the track. they only "tree barked" there because they couldn't go any farther on the track.you move a dog to the other side of a tree when treed and they continue to tree because the track goes up the tree and they cant climb.
I don't see why when they tree on a tree its for any other reason than they cant go any farther on the track.
bred to tree bark for anything they want bad enough and cant get to it.

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I like that analogy toe !

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quote:

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Originally posted by toe cutter
I believe they "bark treed" because they can't go any farther on the track.
sure they learn from track experience that coon climb trees.
but I have seen dogs tree at the edge of a river where the coon went in because they can't or wont continue because they cant or wont swim. seen em tree on a high tight fence where the coon crossed. they don't tree there cause they think the coon is up. you throw em over and they don't check up on the other side of the fence, they continue on the track. they only "tree barked" there because they couldn't go any farther on the track.you move a dog to the other side of a tree when treed and they continue to tree because the track goes up the tree and they cant climb.
I don't see why when they tree on a tree its for any other reason than they cant go any farther on the track.
bred to tree bark for anything they want bad enough and cant get to it.

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I appreciate all your comments. Its just something that's been bugging me for some time, and I wanted to get some of you folks thoughts and information. I've read one book on race horse genetics and one on dog breeding genetics, and there is some good info there too. There was a saying when I was growing up, "breed the best to the best and hope for the best." That is one view point, but I believe there is more to it as well and that's genetics. Like some pointed out, they have made great advances in livestock and plants. Example; roundup ready corn. Thanks for all your input.

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x2

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One thing to remember. Tangible and Intangible. That is something that separates coonhounds from corn and livestock.
Genetics is the key but that key is hidden our hounds because it is not TANGIBLE. Ask 10 guys what a good mouth on a hound is and you get several different answers. Weigh a calf at one month, two months and three months and everyone has to agree with the scale. Improve genetics and improve weight and the scale tells you how your doing. Breed dogs for better mouths and those 10 guys still have different answers on if your doing it right.
Second thing right behind the problem of the makeup of our hounds being intangible is breeders do not CULL. No reason to.
Now take a bull that doesn't produce calfs that gain the correct amount of weight and he is removed from the herd. Doesn't happen much with our hounds because there is no tangible measuring stick to use as all puppies are cute and they all smell good and 5-10% do end up titled. I take that back. If only 5-10% of a Bulls offspring met standards he wouldn't just be removed from the herd. He would be on the dinner table to enjoy with your wine.

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I have had the best results by breeding 2 dogs that both have the same traits common that made each of them the "best".
matching the traits of the parents I have got more pups per litter with them all making the same type dogs. it didn't matter which parent each pup got the trait from it was the same trait showing in each pup..
just because a male and a female have proved to be the best doesn't mean they will cross well unless both have the same traits that made them the best type dogs.
otherwise you're just mixing traits and hoping for the best.
I've always figured why linebred crosses work is because there are more of the same traits in the pool.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rj branch
I would like to know if anyone has ever heard of any study to try and isolate the treeing gene in a dogs DNA, or does anyone think it is a gene that causes some hounds to tree and others -from the same litter - not to. I'm opening myself up here for some real one liners, but there it is. Any facts out there? My research has turned up nada.

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Toe Cutter you made two very important points on this thread.
The point about why they tree and the breeding of like traits.
Getting more pups per litter doing what you want is not only success in itself but those are the pups that reproduce better.
One more thing is a female from the cross you describe line bred can be the backbone of some outstanding hounds.

Just to name a couple in the Walker breed. Raccoon Vally Queen and Hardwood Dixie are a couple behind some of the best walker stud dogs in the country.

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Very seldom will a Beagle Hound or a Fox Hound Tree but they can run a track and they have Prey Drive.

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I have a theory that the first dogs to look up and bark treed were the dumb ones.
Any predator that will spend valuable hunting time staying at a tree where their prey is out of reach would be culled pretty quickly by mother nature, they would starve in short order.
Man took those dumb ones and bred them and created the coondog.
We may have overdone it a little cause now we have a batch that will bark up empty trees. Lol.

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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I have a theory that the first dogs to look up and bark treed were the dumb ones.
Any predator that will spend valuable hunting time staying at a tree where their prey is out of reach would be culled pretty quickly by mother nature, they would starve in short order.
Man took those dumb ones and bred them and created the coondog.
We may have overdone it a little cause now we have a batch that will bark up empty trees. Lol.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Toe Cutter you made two very important points on this thread.
The point about why they tree and the breeding of like traits.
Getting more pups per litter doing what you want is not only success in itself but those are the pups that reproduce better.
One more thing is a female from the cross you describe line bred can be the backbone of some outstanding hounds.

Just to name a couple in the Walker breed. Raccoon Vally Queen and Hardwood Dixie are a couple behind some of the best walker stud dogs in the country.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chiggers
Very seldom will a Beagle Hound or a Fox Hound Tree but they can run a track and they have Prey Drive.

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Last edited by Oak Ridge on 09-27-2013 at 07:46 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I have a theory that the first dogs to look up and bark treed were the dumb ones.
Any predator that will spend valuable hunting time staying at a tree where their prey is out of reach would be culled pretty quickly by mother nature, they would starve in short order.
Man took those dumb ones and bred them and created the coondog.
We may have overdone it a little cause now we have a batch that will bark up empty trees. Lol.

---

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The dogs like Joe's beagle are smart , game getters with loads of all the good stuff.

A coondog trees because he's treed the coon ... that is a hit and miss trait because that's just how the Universe works .. anything valuable is costly .. even when dealing with Mother Nature , Karma or whatever you believe.


But , they have bred the singular trait of treeing into dogs .... pups that just feel good propped up barking .. their instincts hammer at them to tree , tree , tree ...... those are these weaning age pups that will bark at a sock ... or if you lay a drag one day ... tehy will go back to that tree a week later and just start treeing .


We have successfully seperate the varmint treeing gene from the treeing gene ....


What Larry said about the varmint treeing gene being complex is true .. alot of factors ... and the ability to locate BEFORE you tree is in there.

But just to bark up a tree ... we got it ! Kinda like how Heelers of the sorriest breeding will bit your ankle ... a plug Bordie Collie will still show the herding trait on the kids or ducks even if it's a cull cowdog. .. etc ..

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You cant compare using DNA to breed cattle and hounds. At least not for anything but conformation. They can look at DNA and tell you size, color, shape ect..... but they cant tell you about complex thought process by looking at DNA.

Why do they bark treed? I don't know but I have always thought it was to call in the pack. Even though through breeding we have made them independent they are fundamentally pack animals.

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quote:

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Originally posted by joey
You cant compare using DNA to breed cattle and hounds. At least not for anything but conformation. They can look at DNA and tell you size, color, shape ect..... but they cant tell you about complex thought process by looking at DNA.

Why do they bark treed? I don't know but I have always thought it was to call in the pack. Even though through breeding we have made them independent they are fundamentally pack animals.

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