Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

Some say lots of hunting keeping them in the woods.

Some say genetics.

Some say mostly luck.

What is it that makes a dog stand out consistantly nite in and nite out.

IS IT LUCK.

can you take a solid coontreeing coondog hunt them hard and get them as prepared as they can possibly be and with luck win like Mainstreet Ruby has and does.

Or does it take a very special kinda of dog to accomplish wins like she has or

can it be done with a decent hound that is well prepared and LUCK

there is a thread on the redbone page and a lot of folk seem to think it is mostly luck, that most dogs are of the same caliber.

I know what I believe and good luck will help alot but is only a small part of what it takes to stand out and win consistantly at the top level

What do yall think is it luck????????

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Wilkes County, NC
Posts: 816

My opinion would be....

Smart Handler.....Dog Power.....and yes luck has to have something to do with it!

You also have to be present to win!

The more you go the more likely your chances are of winning!

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Registered: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 3085

Heart ,drive accuracy,and independence put together with one desire and that is to please it's owner by treeing coons!! One after another in record time no matter what terrain,weather etc,,, when you have those things and you play the game consistently you will win more than you lose no matter local are big hunts!!! Some get lucky and a lot play the odds of go to 6 hunts a week and you will get lucky on a couple but the two main keys are you know your dog inside and out and your dog wants to and will go to no end to satisfy you and his desire to tree coons!!! Mostof the greats are born that way along with being paired with the right owner and hunter to bring out and sharpen his natural born qualities!!

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
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Any dog that can consistently tree coons night in and night out with or without company gives you the best opportunity to win at a night hunt!

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

i am going to say where its trained here in ky we have a lot of
differnt terrain a dog has to know where to go find a track.

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: Willard, Kentucky
Posts: 1210

I agree with SOUTHERNSTYLE:
A good handler, DOG POWER, and you have to have some luck, and catch some breaks here and there. But most importantly you have to have DOG POWER.

I personally think GREAT DOGS and COON-DOGS are born not made. Yes a good handler/trainer can bring out the best in a dog, as well as a bad handler can ruin a dog. But you have to start with something, you can't turn chicken crap into chicken salad.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA
Posts: 1637

In your thread you mention that some of them think that it is just luck and dogs are about the same caliber . that is crazy to assume that dogs are about the same caliber ! if they were everybody would be leading a ruby or a thousand dollar bill or a clean or a speck or a mojo ! it takes a little luck and some ( knowing your dog) handling but big on dog power is hard to out handle or out luck!

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 118

YOU NEED A HOUND THAT TREES COONS EVERY TIME YOU CUT IT LOOSE BY ITSELF OR WITH COMPANY A GOOD COMPETITION DOG WILL TREE ONE BY ITSELF AND GET PART OF THE OTHERS DOGS TREE PREPARING ONE FOR A HUNT TO PLAYS A BIG FACTOR IN WINNING HUNTING THE HOUND BY ITSELF AND KNOW WHAT IT IS DOING IS PART OF WINNING KNOWING THE RULES HELPS A GOOD GUIDE HELPS WIN OR LOOSE BEING A GOOD SPORTMAN IS THE NAME OF THE GAME IF YOU LOOK AT THE MEN THAT ARE IN THE WINNERS CIRCLE THEY TRAIN HARD YEAR AROUND TO COMPETE IN THE BIG KC HUNTS LIKE ASA MAIN ST RUBY AND MANY OTHERS LARRY WHEN YOU HUNTED IN THE KC HUNTS I KNOW TRAIN HARD AND YOU HAD GREAT SUCCESS WITH YOUR REDBONES

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location: OHIO 44683
Posts: 1417

I dont agree with luck,im sure it helps some but if you went to a hunt relying on luck your in trouble. I think the big winners and the consistent winners are packing hounds that are just way better than most. In my opinion most handlers settle for a dog that is average for fear that the next one they buy or train wont be as good as the current one........therefore,they rely on luck and being half crooked to get them by. I think the real real good dogs that win consistently such as clean, ruby, zeb 3, are few and far between and most hunters dont know how much better dogs like these are. I hunted many nights with clean when he was young and he will win 8 casts out of 10 and theres no luck involved. Also take note that alot of dog owners and handlers win on the big level with different dogs. Russ Bellar, JC Ellis, Asa Briggs, the Sullivans in the other kc,Don Dunlap,Tom Bates,these guys win because they know what a coondog is and also know the ones theyre not gonna waste their time with. JMO

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Registered: Oct 2011
Location:
Posts: 389

I agree with most of the other post. Good handler, dog that wants to please, and maybe a little luck. The thing is I think a very motivated hunter/handler with a good dog, that stays in the woods and goes to every hunt possible deffiently will have better odds. However those odds might be better because he knows his hound and the rules better than others in the cast. I'd say a more outspoken handler versus a quite handler might have better luck.
All in all it's my belief that if you're packing a good hound and know him like the back of you're hand you'll do well. No matter what the circumstances may or may not be it's hard for a slick handler etc to beat a solid hound if he's consistently tree'n coon after coon with no mistakes. JMO

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

I don't believe the luck part myself. Were these 3 finalist in the world hunt last week just extremely lucky?? I doubt. Each had already placed second and one had already won one world hunt. That can't be luck can it? If it is. They dern sure better buy a lotto ticket.

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: MO
Posts: 220

its just hard for some people to admit thier dogs just aint that good and the other people were just luckey

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Look in the mirror and that is where it all starts and generally ends. I am sure each man that was in the final three are really thankful for the hound they were leading on their leash. Truth is, those men would of probably been there or close with a different dog if they were hunting them. The dogs with a different owner wouldn't have done as well. I am not taking anything away from the hounds because they are special. That man in the mirror just understood how special and how to get the most out of a special hound and had the drive and determination to do it.

You young folk out there looking at the History of the sport and the Great Hounds of the past and their well known owners, ask yourself this.
Does the man make the dog or does the dog make the man.
Did Joe House make Houses Chief or did Houses Chief make Joe House.
Did Timothy Ball make Stylish Harry or did Stylish Harry make Timothy Ball. Plug in any well known hound of any breed and it's owner and in the vast majority of the cases the man made the dog.

It's best to Have the knowledge to understand what you want, then understand what you have. Then decide if what you have can be what you want or is it preventing you from having what you want.

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: tn
Posts: 3735

Well said Mr. Conkey. Well said.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
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I agree for the most part as to what has already been written on here but now I'm gonna throw a little monkey wrench into the mix. I agree it takes a very good, well prepared hound, I agree it takes a well prepared very good handler. I agree it takes a little luck along the way as well. Where I disagree is having me believe that these 3 hound that were in that cast are far superior in their coon treeing ability than the remaining top 17 hounds. That is where I think luck plays a bigger role, when deciding which dogs get to the final 4. I say this for many different reasons but one that come to mind for me is back in 2008, I had the privilege of judging through the semi-final round. On Thursday of that week I judged a little female that had placed high the year before. She was absolutely impressive on Thursday, treeing coon in front of, beside of, and behind all other dogs in the cast. But when she went back out by herself, she holed a coon and treed a coon but didn't have plus points to advance so that was as far as she made it. With some luck, (1st coon not running into the ground) She probably would have placed high again that year. The only difference was the luck of where that 1st coon track went.

Now I'm not taking one danged thing away from all these folks that made it to the top 20, and I'm especially happy for all that made it to the final cast. These folks have so very much to be happy for and very proud of, and they deserve all the accolades that come their way.

But if it were truly the fact that those top 4 hounds were the very best hounds in the country, then I think you would see the same 4 or 5 hounds in the final 4, three or four years in a row not just a once in a life time thing. So I think Luck, Luck, and more luck, with a very well prepared hound, and a very well prepared handler, is what puts folks into the final 4.

Now these guys in the final, didn't show up with a half prepared hound. They all did their homework and were prepared for success when the opportunity showed its self. When preparation meets opportunity, good things will happen. And I'm happy for all of them!!!

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Registered: Mar 2013
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Posts: 618

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rocketman55
I agree for the most part as to what has already been written on here but now I'm gonna throw a little monkey wrench into the mix. I agree it takes a very good, well prepared hound, I agree it takes a well prepared very good handler. I agree it takes a little luck along the way as well. Where I disagree is having me believe that these 3 hound that were in that cast are far superior in their coon treeing ability than the remaining top 17 hounds. That is where I think luck plays a bigger role, when deciding which dogs get to the final 4. I say this for many different reasons but one that come to mind for me is back in 2008, I had the privilege of judging through the semi-final round. On Thursday of that week I judged a little female that had placed high the year before. She was absolutely impressive on Thursday, treeing coon in front of, beside of, and behind all other dogs in the cast. But when she went back out by herself, she holed a coon and treed a coon but didn't have plus points to advance so that was as far as she made it. With some luck, (1st coon not running into the ground) She probably would have placed high again that year. The only difference was the luck of where that 1st coon track went.

Now I'm not taking one danged thing away from all these folks that made it to the top 20, and I'm especially happy for all that made it to the final cast. These folks have so very much to be happy for and very proud of, and they deserve all the accolades that come their way.

But if it were truly the fact that those top 4 hounds were the very best hounds in the country, then I think you would see the same 4 or 5 hounds in the final 4, three or four years in a row not just a once in a life time thing. So I think Luck, Luck, and more luck, with a very well prepared hound, and a very well prepared handler, is what puts folks into the final 4.

Now these guys in the final, didn't show up with a half prepared hound. They all did their homework and were prepared for success when the opportunity showed its self. When preparation meets opportunity, good things will happen. And I'm happy for all of them!!!

---

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1839

quote:

---

Originally posted by POTOMAC
Heart ,drive accuracy,and independence put together with one desire and that is to please it's owner by treeing coons!! One after another in record time no matter what terrain,weather etc,,, when you have those things and you play the game consistently you will win more than you lose no matter local are big hunts!!! Some get lucky and a lot play the odds of go to 6 hunts a week and you will get lucky on a couple but the two main keys are you know your dog inside and out and your dog wants to and will go to no end to satisfy you and his desire to tree coons!!! Mostof the greats are born that way along with being paired with the right owner and hunter to bring out and sharpen his natural born qualities!!

---

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Al Tarantella

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1839

quote:

---

Originally posted by jculler8
Any dog that can consistently tree coons night in and night out with or without company gives you the best opportunity to win at a night hunt!

---

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Al Tarantella

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Anthon, IA
Posts: 354

There isn't much luck involved with turning ruby loose. She is probably the quickest tree dog you'll ever hunt with. Then after that flip her loose and she'll go find another and not worry if any things coming with her or not. I don't know about now but as a young dog she was never moody either all she wanted to do was tree coons. There is a right way to get a dog prepared for those big hunts too and brandon and ace sure know how to do it.

There's more to getting one ready for a hunt than just saying yup he's treeing coons he's ready.

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 247

Luck is when preparedness meets opportunity!!!!

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 127

I'm not sure Mr Clean has won as much as Ruby but he sure seems to be lucky a lot.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

for the people that believe its just luck. if you could go hunt with a big time winner for a week or two straight you would soon no its not all luck.

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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: michigan
Posts: 416

read the post most of the guys on there said it was the dog and a small part of luck the small part not being seen in that lol iv never been but i know your not getting there with out a good dog and a lot of work

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

ok people ar probaly going to say i do not know what i'm talking about BUT this is what i look for in a compation dog.

1st i look for a dog that i will get 95 % or better first stricks
2nd it has to get 95% of the first trees or better
3rd it has to split tree and stay no matter what and if it trees with other dogs it has to stay no mater what, I WILL NOT HUNT A DOG THAT WILL NOT STAY TREED.
If i have a good prospect i will get with who ever wants to go huntting for a week and put this dog with what ever i can, if it is doing the first 3 things i listed, i will hunt it by its self from then on the only time that dog is turned lose with another dog is in the hunts. to me it builds a compation in it to out compete the other dogs , that dog and i become best friends,we are together every night and i mean everynight, not 1 or 3 nights a week it is 7 nights a week, and trust me you do not stay married long when you hunt like that.
the only LUCK that you need is getting turned lose in coon that is it the dog will do the rest, it is your resposability to know the dog and I call it for what it does, not what i think it is going to do if you do that you will stay out of trouble, let the other get in trouble trying to catch you.
by hunting the dog so hard i feel it puts a hate for the coon in it , but that might be because of the way i hunt it.
have i ever won a world hunt (NO I HAVE NOT) have i had dogs that could have won it (YES) it was not the dogs fault that it was not there to try, have i won in big huts (YES I HAVE) look at my signature on my post that is no where near the dogs that i have finished, if you talk to some of the people that win a lot they probaly will tell you they have done it close to this , i have been compation hunting since 1969 i'm going on 63 years old i know what it takes,
CONGRATS TO ALL THE WINNERS OF THE WORLD HUNT THEY PUT IN MANY MANY HOURS TO GET THERE DOG READY
(THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES)

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BRAINS!!! Dog has to have them or there is no way to teach them what you need from them. Give me one with brains and i'll show you a hound that can be taught to win consistantly.

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