Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 924

Which do you think plays a more vital role in the quality of pups The male or female side or both or neither?

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 400

Really not sure. I've seen a few cases where a cross just "clicked". I would like to think both parents were responsible but not positive.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Spring Creek N.C.
Posts: 434

I really liked that article in this months bloodlines the amazonian x-connection.... broken down it states that females possibly make up as much as 70% of the pup makeup.... but at least 50. The females are largely overlooked.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: wakarusa, indiana
Posts: 3304

None of the above . It helps some . But IMO its 80% training and 20% what they are out of . There are no doubt some excellent reproducing dogs out there but raising and training is everything

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Registered: Jul 2007
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Posts: 3075

I believe the female and the reproducing numbers back my thoughts!!!! A top female is 60% plus a top male is 10% now there are def better reproducing females than males but everyi somoften o doom male comes along and throws hos traits no matter what female he is bred to or how she is bred!!! I don't Harley think trainh and raising has near as much to do with it !!! You can't take any kid today has genetic makeup is not thereon matter how much training you give them they won't be a professional athlete!!! The truing and handling are important to bring out and optimize the genetics that they were born with!!! And they will never develop without a chance but with all the chances in the world they won't make it if they aren't born with the ability !!!!

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Greene County Ohio
Posts: 1264

How do you train a coon dog. I hunt with an old timer that is always packing a powerful dog. And he says guys say they trained this pup and that pup. He says BS you took them to the woods they started or they didn't. He claims its in them or its not.

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Registered: May 2007
Location: fairmont wv
Posts: 11948

quote:

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Originally posted by Matt McKinney
How do you train a coon dog. I hunt with an old timer that is always packing a powerful dog. And he says guys say they trained this pup and that pup. He says BS you took them to the woods they started or they didn't. He claims its in them or its not.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Greene County Ohio
Posts: 1264

Like when guys say give me a good hard tree dog that slicks and I will turn him into a coondog? How? How can you make a dog with no brains and no nose a coondog ? Please someone answer this cause it baffles me. Old timer also told meif a young dog starts out slick treeing get rid of that pile of junk.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by Dwils
None of the above . It helps some . But IMO its 80% training and 20% what they are out of . There are no doubt some excellent reproducing dogs out there but raising and training is everything

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This is what happens when you spend all day in an air conditioned tractor with GPS guidance and computerized everything. Your brain starts to go stale like a pup that never sees the outside of a kennel for the first 10 months. It's called BOREDOM! If Dwils had said it's 80% what they are out of and 20% training, everybody would just nod and agree and the thread would die.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by Matt McKinney
Like when guys say give me a good hard tree dog that slicks and I will turn him into a coondog? How? How can you make a dog with no brains and no nose a coondog ? Please someone answer this cause it baffles me. Old timer also told meif a young dog starts out slick treeing get rid of that pile of junk.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 1309

it seems if the cross turns out nice dogs the "stud" gets the credit.
but....if the cross don't work the female gets the blame!!
lol

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Registered: Nov 2010
Location: Huntington, Texas
Posts: 169

quote:

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Originally posted by Carl Fox
Dwils that is about the dumbest statement i have ever heard you make on this board no ill will intent towards you just one mans opinion i know and that is all we all are giving.I now know your age would bet money you are not over 30 years old.

I had ever intent to get into the Skuna River dogs which you hunt but i will just buy one out of anything if its just in training and nothing to do with the breeding.

IMO which don't amount to diddly coon dogs are born not trained if you have to kill coon after coon to get a dog to stay treed or go hunting something is wrong.

You absolutely can not make a dog go hunting no matter how much training you do if its not bred into it to hunt but you can teach a bird dog to bark up a tree.
I can name four or five bloodlines that i have hunted in the past that there were no training involved just take to the hills at a certain age and they would do the rest.

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Rockdale Texas
Posts: 440

I'm a young coon hunter but I would think it would be the same as people. Genetics from both sides. Some will take after dam, some after sire. And a couple that have some of both. Breed junk to gold and might get a couple gold. Just whoever has stronger genetics I guess. But that's just my opinion which is worth nothing to anybody but me lol

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Taylorsville, Ky
Posts: 213

I would say luck has a lot to do with it. I had a dog who as a house dog for the first three years of her never saw a coon at age 4 was a grnt ch. that kinda throws the training and raising thing out for her. She did know how to lay on the couch

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Registered: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 3075

Luck has nothing to do with it !!!! That female had it in her and it was bred in her she just never got the oppurtunity to show what she was born with until she was 4 years old

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: canton texas
Posts: 709

well there is a saying in the dog world that goes something like = a good reproducing male will put you on top but a good reproducing gyp will keep you there . and I firmly believe this I have all ways been a gyp man and put more stock in a good gyp than all the males out there . back when I was raising game fowl it was no different , I would sell you all the roosters you would ever want , but the only way to get a hen from me was to TRY and steal it lol .

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Reelsville , Indiana
Posts: 1124

Genetically speaking, they get half from one and half from the other. The odds of passing good traits from good parents are better, then say, one pot licker and one world champ. but you just never know. I mean, both of my parents were alright, and I'm still not sure how I'm going to turn out.

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Registered: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 3075

Look you can get all the book knowledge you want but experience is. The best teacher and after you do this for 30 years you will know a lot that you don't now I have one female that produces exactly what she is bred to I have another that produces herself no matter what she is bred to everyone is different !!! As far as studs 99% are way way overrated they are sperm donors that get there names off of top females!!!! And there is the 1% of males that are top dominating reproducers no matter what they are bred to and they are very few and very far between!!!!believe it or not I really don't care I'm telling you from experience not book!!!! The female controls most everything one way or another!!!no different than in most your houses and mine to!!! If you deny this you are divorced ,or single!! If she ain't happy nobodies happy!!And you also better your chances a lot when both the sire and the dam both comes from high percentage crosses not one hit wonders!!!!!

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Northeast Arkansas
Posts: 451

I don't know a whole lot, but from what I have gathered in the 3 years I've hunted, I would say the female plays the more vital role in the genetics of pups, roughly 70/30. Also, luck always helps, but it has nothing to do with the blood running through the veins of the hounds, and what they are bred
to do. Training does, play a role in the outcome of the hound, but only more of the fine tuning aspects of the hound. If the hound has it BRED into them, then, if given the opportunity, it should come pretty natural to them, but as stated, they will need some training to fine tune their abilities, and most of all, time in the woods. That is just my .02 cents. Doesn't mean I am right or wrong, just what I believe.

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Registered: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 3075

And most of today's pups never get the chance to even see if they have it in them to be a top cooner and when I say most I mean 95%!!!!! if not more!! I have not had a pup in the last 8 years that wouldn't tree a coon when I was done with that said only 3 are still here !! Most of the young hunters today think that if a pup is taken to the woods three times and it doesn't run and tree it's own coon and stay it's a cull and they sell them ,trade them or just leave teem tied out back and the never get another chance!!!! A pup training and working starts when they are 7 weeks old at the latest at my house and they are wooded and around water from then on and it's a lot of time and reward when yup get that special pup but again it doesn't come overnight by many !!!to be honest there are way to many hounds being bred these days for the wrong reason !! Most that left here didn't have the heart,desire ,drive that I require in a pup or young dog to stay and that my friends is born in them not trained and a couple just didn't have the mouth I like to hunt muchness wouldn't even think of reproducing these type. In the future!!! One of the best dogs I have eveer seen to this day the man told me never treed her first coon until she was over two years old!!!! But son let me tell you when she started she left an impression on me!! So it's not how they startt but how they finish that matters !!

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 1309

quote:

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Originally posted by prostockpat
it seems if the cross turns out nice dogs the "stud" gets the credit.
but....if the cross don't work the female gets the blame!!
lol

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