Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

Does off game have to be seen (nitech cast) in order for them to be scrtached?

Example
4 dog cast all 4 struck. 3 dogs trail out of hearing in just a few minutes. While keeping up with dogs 4th dog come from behind you and heads towards a small section of woods. The cast can hardly keep up with the 3 that are (my thoughts) running a deer. Can the 3 be scratched or do you have to see the deer?

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Last edited by Frank M on 07-15-2013 at 01:48 PM

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

There is nothing in the rule book stating any requirement for visual confirmation. It is a judgement call subject to being overturned by a majority of the cast.
I think scratching for offgame heard but not seen is probably one of the rarest calls you will ever hear about in a nite hunt. Not saying it can't or won't happen but I have never seen or heard of a dog(s) scratched for running offgame that nobody saw.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

Thanks Jim I was sure it didn't have to be seen.

My wife hunted my female in a hunt Saturday and she told the judge them dogs are running off game and his first remark was "Prove it"

When she asked me I told her you didn't have to prove it that it was a judgement call. With the judges dog being involved you know the outcome. I'm more upset my dog didn't make em pay by treeing a coon or 2 while they did ran it.

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Frank Manning
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Home of
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NtCh FCh CH 'PR' Just A Dog


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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

"Prove it" is a really stupid and amateur response in any of these situations because 1) nothing in the rules or the Advisor has ever required proof and 2) proving it is seldom even possible.

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PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Jim in may be a stupid remark but if its you against 3 more and your not judge. You'll have to prove it. Like having it on video or something lol.

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 712

frank I was told there was something in the latest rules that it did not have to be seen but if believed to be running off game could vote on it. don't quote me, but a good one for allen or todd to respond to.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

Cory I asked this question more to prove to someone else than myself. I'm more mad psycho didn't tree a coon while they did it than the fact they didn't get scratched.

The only time you need "proff" is it has to be verified that a dog is on a tree if the stationary catches it. Other wise it's all just a judgement call like Jim said and chances are with a vote your going to be overturned more than not.

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NtCh FCh CH 'PR' Just A Dog


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Use only the Rules UKC has writen not the ones you think should be there!

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

i can remeber back some time ago Todd had said something about not having to see off game maybe he can bring it back up.

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 712

frank at least one thing you can take as good is she was paying attention and knew what was going on.

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CORY & SASHA HALL

FCH WCH GRCH ZUUL
2021 AUTUMN OAKS BEST OF SHOW
2021 WORLD CHAMPION PLOTT
2021 OHIO STATE OVERALL SHOW CHAMPION
2022 WINTER CLASSIC CH PLOTT
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CHAMPION
2023 MICHIGAN STATE YOUTH CHAMPION OVER ALL SHOW WINNER
2023 AUTUMN OAKS NRGCH PLOTT MALE
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2021 ISAIAH KIDD OPP. SEX WINNER
2022 ISAIAH KIDD OPP. SEX WINNER
2023 AUTUMN OAKS NGRNCH PLOTT & HIGH SCORING PLOTT


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2019 AUTUMN OAKS 7th PLACE & HIGH SCORING PLOTT
2019 MICHIGAN STATE HUNT 3RD PLACE
2019 N.P.H.A. HIGH SCORING DOG OF THE YEAR
2020 MICHIGAN STATE YOUTH CHAMPION OVERALL STATE HUNT WINNER
2021 A.PA. COON DOG OF THE YEAR
2021 GRAND AMERICAN DUAL CH & GRCH PLOTT X2
2022 WINTER CLASSIC CAST WINNER
2022 MICHIGAN STATE HUNT 5TH PLACE
2022 PLOTT DAYS CAST WINNER
2022 MICHIGAN STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP OVERALL STATE SHOW & FIELD TRIAL WINNER
2022 N.P.H.A. OPP. SEX HIGH SCORING DOG OF THE YEAR
2023 PLOTT DAYS CAST WINNER
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ACHA GRNITECH/GRNITECH GRWCH GRFCH GRCH HALL'S LATE NIGHT MAGIC
2013,14 ISAIAH KIDD OPP. SEX WINNER
2012,13,14 AUTUMN OAKS CAST WIN & HIGH SCORING PLOTT FEMALE
2012 NPHA HIGH SCORING DOG OF THE YEAR
2013 NPHA HIGH SCORING OPP. SEX DOG OF THE YEAR
2012 ACHA STATE RACE WINNER
2013 PLOTT DOGS.COM CHAMPION
2014 MICHIGAN STATE YOUTH CHAMPION OVER ALL STATE HUNT WINNER

NITECH GRWCH GRFCH GRCH HALL'S RENEGADE RAMBO HTX
2011 YOUTH WORLD ALL AROUND CHAMPION
2011 WORLD CHAMPION PLOTT
2011 KING OF PLOTT DAYS
TOP 10 BREED WINNER

FCH NITECH GRWCH GRCH LATE NIGHTS SOUTHERN SCARLETT
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2017,18 QUEEN OF PLOTT DAYS
2017 WISCONSIN STATE CHAMPION
2018 GRAND AMERICA OVER ALL FEMALE
2018 WINTER CLASSIC OVER ALL GRCH FEMALE
2018 TOP 10 BREED WINNER

NITECH WCH CH LATE NIGHT IMPRESSIVE TAP OUT
2024 ISAIAH KIDD OPP. SEX
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Carrollton,Missouri
Posts: 947

If the others want to run deer Ill take my chances letting them hunt. If you go and start scratching people for running off game without seeing it theres going to be alot of posts on monday morning about people getting cheated.lol

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Taylorsville, NC
Posts: 1320

The handler knows if his dog is running a deer or not. Getting the handler to be honest is another thing. You do not have to see the off game but with three dogs running it and only one asking for a vote, you can bet the outcome won't be in your favor. Having an honest judge is the key to any good cast or having three honest handlers. In reality that is probably not going to happen. Honor is the missing link to all sports.

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Brian Teague 252-649-3050

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
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Page 165 of the original Advisor. You do not always have to see a dog to score a dog. You do not have to see a dog leave a tree to know he's back on trail and minus his tree points. You do not have to see two dogs rolling in the leaves to know you just heard a dog fight and to scratch them for fighting. You do not have to see a dog leaving the country in a straight line across a plowed field and out of hearing to scratch them for off game. Judging requires good judgement. If you are not sure, you give the dog the benefit of the doubt. If you are sure of something based on your experience as a hunter, make the call.

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If we're not suppose to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

quote:

---

Originally posted by Todd K / UKC
Page 165 of the original Advisor. You do not always have to see a dog to score a dog. You do not have to see a dog leave a tree to know he's back on trail and minus his tree points. You do not have to see two dogs rolling in the leaves to know you just heard a dog fight and to scratch them for fighting. You do not have to see a dog leaving the country in a straight line across a plowed field and out of hearing to scratch them for off game. Judging requires good judgement. If you are not sure, you give the dog the benefit of the doubt. If you are sure of something based on your experience as a hunter, make the call.

---

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Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

quote:

---

Originally posted by buck brush
Todd can they call for a cast vote and over rule a Judge for making a call on any one of these 3 things?????

---

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If we're not suppose to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: New Florence PA
Posts: 246

We had a similar situation at our club this past weekend, 2 dogs are left in the cast, the other 2 withdrew and the cast members had left the cast, the 2 dogs are both struck in, then are heard 'baying' something, dog A comes back in and is minused his strick pts., dog B moves from where they were both heard baying, then I think handler of dog B said she was in a hole, when they proceed they find she has a opposum, nitech cast of course she is scratched, the question was should dog A be scratched since they were on the same track, however dog A didn't get 'caught red handed' with the evidence. Of course handler of dog A would not admit that his dog also was on the off game, he said that you couldn't prove that she was running it. I wasn't along on the cast, just serving breakfast :-) Was curious to the correct ruling on this one....

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: tioga co.pa
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you dont know yer dog you shoulndt own one....(owner should be smarter than the dog)

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