UKC Forums - Performance Program

	UKC Website :: Hunting Ops :: All-Breed Sports :: Registration :: UKC Online Store

UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0

UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > Performance Program

Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Last Thread Next Thread

Author

Thread

Brandon Gudgeon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Leadmine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1992

Performance Program

What's everyone's opinion on the Performance Program? I realize with the point value continuing to drop, some are losing interest in paying up their sires. I realize that as the owner of a stud that only plans on breeding for themselves, it can be expensive by the time the stud and litter is all paid up.

It seems like it doesn't really pay out in the end unless you're mass producing pups and hunting bigger hunts. I know around here an average CW is just about gonna get your entry fee back. Not saying it should be about the money, as it's nice to just get something back, but in the end is it really worth it? Do people still require a puppy to be perf eligible before buying one? I know I said I'd never put my time into one that wasn't, but I find myself caring less about the Performance Program and more about the coondog.

__________________
Brandon Gudgeon
Benton, WI
(608)-606-2608

NiteCh 'PR' Beast Mode Tramp
- 1st Runner Up Jr Young Guns 2014 National BBOA Days - 300+
- 9th place (Friday night) 2014 National BBOA Days - 250+
- 1st place opens 2014 WI State BBOA Championship - 837.5+
- UKC 2nd - 100+
- UKC 1st - 225+
- 2015 Zone 3 BBOA Championship King of Hunt
- 2015 Iowa State BBCHA King of Hunt (1st place NtCh)
- 2016 Zone 3 BBOA Championship 1st place NtCh (Fri Night)

R.I.P.

Ch NiteCh 'PR' Gabby's Tree Poundin Bocephus

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 08:14 PM

Click here to Send Brandon Gudgeon a Private Message

JustinH23
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Reelsville , Indiana
Posts: 1124

I more than covered my entries last year. I would not buy a pup that was not in the program.

__________________
Justin Haddon

Proud member of the Deer Creek Cartel

Founding Member of the BSKC. Making coon hunting great again.

Home of:

`PR` B$C Clifford (BoonexCopper)
`PR` Johnson Branch Stub (GitXCree)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 08:23 PM

Click here to Send JustinH23 a Private Message

josh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

The biggest problem with the PP is the low entry #'s at local hunts

__________________
Bad decisions make good stories.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 08:34 PM

Click here to Send josh a Private Message

Blue Iron
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Thomaston,GA
Posts: 3698

UKC implemented a policy change this year. They upped the fee to permanently nominate a pup to $30 if they're under 6 months and $100 from 6 months to 1 year, after a year old they can't be permanently nominated. They said the reason for this was to get the point value up some.

I co-own a little female off Brummy that in limited hunts earned almost 2 points, that's over $200 coming my way. I'm not going to get rich by any means, but it's a nice little boost. I won't own a pup that isn't Performanced nor will I breed to a male who isn't a Performance sire.

__________________
Clyde Murphy 229-344-7308

GRCH GRNITECH"PR" Blue Iron Brummy HTX

Top 100 Finalist 2012 UKC World Hunt.

King of Hunt 2013 BBOA National Bluetick Days

Tree Blue

I use and recommend Backwoods Supplies

Last edited by Blue Iron on 01-17-2013 at 10:43 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 10:32 PM

Click here to Send Blue Iron a Private Message

GA DAWG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

I've said it since it came out. This should have had an age limit. Would hold the point value up there more I think. You can make a little money as it is and I guess that's better than nothing.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 10:37 PM

Click here to Send GA DAWG a Private Message

Brandon Gudgeon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Leadmine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1992

quote:
Originally posted by Blue Iron
UKC implemented a policy change this year. They upped the fee to permanently nominate a pup to $30 if they're under 6 months and $100 from 6 months to 1 year, after a year old they can't be permanently nominated. They said the reason for this was to get the point value up some.

I co-own a little female off Brummy that in limited hunts earned almost 2 points, that's over $200 coming my way. I'm not going to get rich by any means, but it's a nice little boost. I won't own a pup that isn't Performanced nor will I breed to a male who isn't a Performance sire.

Panic did what most of us wish our dogs could do.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 11:03 PM

patches9452
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

They also added where you could permanently performance the whole litter for one fee also.... Think it was 150$ if not mistaken

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 11:21 PM

Click here to Send patches9452 a Private Message

LIL-E
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location: Coldwater Mississippi
Posts: 566

When do the checks go out? I got one once but have not got one in a year seems like.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 11:23 PM

Click here to Send LIL-E a Private Message

Dan Dogs
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

quote:
Originally posted by LIL-E
When do the checks go out? I got one once but have not got one in a year seems like.

end of march every yr.

__________________
Home of:
- Gr. Nite Ch. Iowa County Crybabe
- Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan
- Gr. CH Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan II
- CH. Gr. Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan III 2008 Performance Sire
- CH. Gr.Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan IV 2004 ukc world hunt finalist
- Ch. Gr.Nite Ch. Mounds Creek Sassy II
- Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Bucky HTX 3 wins towards grnite
- GrCh.GrNtCh Hickory Nut Bawlie HTX
-Nite ch. PR Iowa County CryBaby II 2013 Badger State Hunt Champion
qualified for 2013 UKC World Hunt
CH Nitech She Hate Me (scar) HTX Iowa County Kennels

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-17-2013 11:54 PM

Click here to Send Dan Dogs a Private Message

Blue Iron
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Thomaston,GA
Posts: 3698

quote:
Originally posted by Brandon Gudgeon
Panic did what most of us wish our dogs could do.

She just won a few casts and a couple of them happened to at "bigger" hunts

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-18-2013 12:05 AM

RFussnecker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Bethel, ohio
Posts: 426

? about performance papers

If the papers say perm nominated for performance program on them does that mean the dog is in the program?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-18-2013 03:26 AM

Click here to Send RFussnecker a Private Message

RFussnecker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Bethel, ohio
Posts: 426

If the dogs papers say perm nominated for performance program, does that mean its in the program?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-18-2013 03:28 AM

Brandon Gudgeon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Leadmine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1992

Re: ? about performance papers

quote:
Originally posted by RFussnecker
If the papers say perm nominated for performance program on them does that mean the dog is in the program?

Yup! As long as you are registered owner at time of winning, you'll get a check at the end of the year.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-18-2013 03:29 AM

jculler8
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

quote:
Originally posted by Blue Iron
UKC implemented a policy change this year. They upped the fee to permanently nominate a pup to $30 if they're under 6 months and $100 from 6 months to 1 year, after a year old they can't be permanently nominated. They said the reason for this was to get the point value up some.

I co-own a little female off Brummy that in limited hunts earned almost 2 points, that's over $200 coming my way. I'm not going to get rich by any means, but it's a nice little boost. I won't own a pup that isn't Performanced nor will I breed to a male who isn't a Performance sire.

I'd really like to know why WE have to pay extra to make the point values depleted by UKC in the first 3 years of the program worth more now, after the fact.

I'd like someone to post what a point value was worth on the 3rd year of the program and what the point cap was back then.

I'm just curious, I was not around then, but have heard a few stories about some "very large payouts" in the very first few years of the program.

The way I see it, in the first at least 2 years of the program, very little is payed out because the newly nominated pups physically can't do any substantial winning until at least 1.5-3 years old.... So the pot should've been pretty big, why is it so small now?

__________________
OAKS POINT KENNELS

HOME OF

PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

CH 'PR' CHERRY CREEK XBOX 2016 Treeing Walker Days King of Show

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-18-2013 05:03 AM

Click here to Send jculler8 a Private Message

GA DAWG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

First few yrs the points where extremely high. Then more dogs came along and winnings went down. Now you have 6,7 or 8 yr old dogs and down earning points. That's why its went down. Its probably about as low as it will go though.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-18-2013 06:10 AM

Brandon Gudgeon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Leadmine, Wisconsin
Posts: 1992

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
First few yrs the points where extremely high. Then more dogs came along and winnings went down. Now you have 6,7 or 8 yr old dogs and down earning points. That's why its went down. Its probably about as low as it will go though.

I don't understamd that. Only cuz now and forevermore there will be dogs in the performance program up to older ages as you stated so the pot will be divided more than when the program first came out. The way I understamd it, when it first came out the point value was higher because most of the perf paid up dogs weren't at the ages yet to compete. Now there are perf dogs all over dividing up the pot more and more.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-18-2013 06:35 AM

Christy
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
Posts: 10272

quote:
Originally posted by jculler8
I'd really like to know why WE have to pay extra to make the point values depleted by UKC in the first 3 years of the program worth more now, after the fact.

I'd like someone to post what a point value was worth on the 3rd year of the program and what the point cap was back then.

I'm just curious, I was not around then, but have heard a few stories about some "very large payouts" in the very first few years of the program.

The way I see it, in the first at least 2 years of the program, very little is payed out because the newly nominated pups physically can't do any substantial winning until at least 1.5-3 years old.... So the pot should've been pretty big, why is it so small now?

The administrative fee is a pretty big chunk of that. it's 10% i believe.

__________________
HOME OF TEAM SID!!!-now on Facebook!!
"WHERE PLEASURE HUNTERS WIN!!!"-Christy Clayton
GO TEAM SID!!!

*GRCH NTCH'PR'RB'S Rock River Sid-R.I.P.

*CH'PR'Jet's Tember Shakin Sadie (UKC 2ND)
*Banjo

Independent Consultant for Jamberry Nails!! Check them out!!

Quincy-828-269-8768
OR Christy-828-269-4678---If we dont answer, please leave a message!!!

EVERYTHING happens for a reason.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 04:10 AM

Click here to Send Christy a Private Message

runnin rebels
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mn
Posts: 513

it is simple

When the program was in its 1,2,3 years there were few dogs mature enough to win in a hunt so you had a lot of money in a pot divided by a few winning dogs. now you have maybe a little more money in the pot, but it is divided by every dog that has been bred in the last 8 years. I just looked at my stubs and from the year of 06 the point value was $400, 07 $298, 09 $196.

in order for the point value to go back up they need to put an age limit on the dogs that can earn points

the idea was never to make a lot of money just to get some back.

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 01:31 PM

Click here to Send runnin rebels a Private Message

JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:
Originally posted by jculler8
I'd really like to know why WE have to pay extra to make the point values depleted by UKC in the first 3 years of the program worth more now, after the fact.

I'd like someone to post what a point value was worth on the 3rd year of the program and what the point cap was back then.

I'm just curious, I was not around then, but have heard a few stories about some "very large payouts" in the very first few years of the program.

The way I see it, in the first at least 2 years of the program, very little is payed out because the newly nominated pups physically can't do any substantial winning until at least 1.5-3 years old.... So the pot should've been pretty big, why is it so small now?

Those large payouts were the first year when there was no cap on the number of points won per hunt. I recall that, I think it was Larry Prouix, won the reg hunt at AO with a pup. Back then you got a flat two points for every 20 dogs entered. The AO reg hunt enters what, 200 or so? Prioux won something like 20some points and this was back when points were worth 400 bucks. That's a BIG check! UKC saw the problem and fixed it quickly. Most always expected the point value to level off and hold steady at around 100 bucks per point. I think they will continue to do what they think is necessary to keep the program at the $100 per point level.

As for that last question, just do the math.
You got $100000 being divided by 100 dogs, that's $1000 per point. You take $500000 being divided by 5000 dogs, that's $100 per point, like we have today.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Last edited by JiM on 01-19-2013 at 02:00 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 01:52 PM

Click here to Send JiM a Private Message

slobbermouth21
Banned

Registered: Oct 2012
Location: alabama
Posts: 1026

I could care less about it but there are people out there that look down on dogs and want buy them if they ain't all grand pp and ss about like the man who buys a Cadillac and a man one man buys a ford the man who buys a Cadillac wants to show off while the man who buys a for could give a crap less as long as it gets the job done.

__________________
Been foolen with walkers since I was five be
foolen with them on the day I die.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 02:10 PM

Click here to Send slobbermouth21 a Private Message

walkerdog1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: west virginia
Posts: 721

quote:
Originally posted by slobbermouth21
I could care less about it but there are people out there that look down on dogs and want buy them if they ain't all grand pp and ss about like the man who buys a Cadillac and a man one man buys a ford the man who buys a Cadillac wants to show off while the man who buys a for could give a crap less as long as it gets the job done.

__________________
get in the dark and get hooked

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 08:08 PM

Click here to Send walkerdog1 a Private Message

JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

You guys seem to miss the point of these programs. First of all comparing All Grand to a nominated pup shows just how far off base you really are because All Grand refers to a level that was earned by the dogs ancestors. PRP and SS are something that is just simply bought. Any numbscull pup can be paidup no matter how totally worthless they are. That a pup is PRP and/or SS says absolutely nothing about that pup itself. So it ISN'T like comparing a Caddy to a Ford, it isn't a comparison at all. The reason so many won't feed any pup that isn't paid up is because they prolly consider it wasteful to spend time, effort and money to develope a pup that isn't eligible to earn all that money and that will NEVER be worth as much as one that IS eligible. I don't know anyone that would buy a pup that wasn't PRP nominated but I'm sure many do.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 09:01 PM

Autumn Clements
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Prince Edward Island,Canada
Posts: 4589

If I was to buy a pup off a stud dog it would have to be performance eligible. If I was getting a pup from a friend, I prob still get the pup if it wasnt performanced or raising my own litter, as of yet I've paid my males and litter all up but in future I may consider not to due to cost of the whole thing

__________________
Autumn Clements

'PR'LEAD'S MIDNITE SASSY
CFC CH Canadian GCH Multi Group Placing MBPIG BBPIG LEGACYK STANNYFIELD PRIME TIME (AKC & UKC Pointed)
BPIG MBBPIG WINDAMIRS RED LIGHT DISTRICT V AMBERLANE
LEGACYK DARE TO DREAM V CBLUES
LEGACYK WHITE AS A GHOST V CBLUES

Gone but not forgotten
GRNITECH GRCH PKC CH'PR'CLEMENTS' BLUE PRANCER
GRNITECH GRCH'PR'SPIKE'S TWILITE HOOKER
'PR'PRANCER'S GETTIN DOWN N DIRTY (PrancerxHooker)
NITECH CH�PR�BUELL�S BLUE ROCKY(Whitey x Spice)
CKC BBPIG MARIES BABY BREEZE

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 09:04 PM

Click here to Send Autumn Clements a Private Message

dperry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 623

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Those large payouts were the first year when there was no cap on the number of points won per hunt. I recall that, I think it was Larry Prouix, won the reg hunt at AO with a pup. Back then you got a flat two points for every 20 dogs entered. The AO reg hunt enters what, 200 or so? Prioux won something like 20some points and this was back when points were worth 400 bucks. That's a BIG check! UKC saw the problem and fixed it quickly. Most always expected the point value to level off and hold steady at around 100 bucks per point. I think they will continue to do what they think is necessary to keep the program at the $100 per point level.

As for that last question, just do the math.
You got $100000 being divided by 100 dogs, that's $1000 per point. You take $500000 being divided by 5000 dogs, that's $100 per point, like we have today.

Commodity trader, fuel speculator, and mathmetician.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 09:05 PM

Click here to Send dperry a Private Message

jculler8
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Those large payouts were the first year when there was no cap on the number of points won per hunt. I recall that, I think it was Larry Prouix, won the reg hunt at AO with a pup. Back then you got a flat two points for every 20 dogs entered. The AO reg hunt enters what, 200 or so? Prioux won something like 20some points and this was back when points were worth 400 bucks. That's a BIG check! UKC saw the problem and fixed it quickly. Most always expected the point value to level off and hold steady at around 100 bucks per point. I think they will continue to do what they think is necessary to keep the program at the $100 per point level.

As for that last question, just do the math.
You got $100000 being divided by 100 dogs, that's $1000 per point. You take $500000 being divided by 5000 dogs, that's $100 per point, like we have today.

No Jim, I disagree. You answered my question right off the bat... No point cap. The problem was fixed in year #3 of the program, yet we are all suffering from the large loss of the pot in year #2. Same story goes with our government's spending from the tax pot.

Also, in your number crunching, you forgot the fact that money is compounding annually and more dogs pay into the program than what is collected. (Very few dogs that pay in actually reward out).

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

01-19-2013 09:27 PM

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:29 PM.

Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Last Thread Next Thread

Show Printable Version |

Email this Page |

Subscribe to this Thread

Forum Jump:

Forum Rules:

You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts

HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

< Contact Us - United Kennel Club >

Copyright 2003-2020, United Kennel Club
Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.3.0
(vBulletin courtesy Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.)