Registered: Jul 2003
Location: east tennessee
Posts: 141

The theard below has sparked a area that I am curious what you think.
My opinion is that 90% of all dogs born have the same abilitys
like humans most of us are born with 2 eyes 2 ears ect...
I think most dog have the same level of senses: eyesight hearing
nose ect I think a dog choose's what level of track to run some dogs dont have the desire to run a hard but colder track and some dogs do.. I think the breed and bloodline determines how much desire a pup will posess and think when a dog is boo hooing around i think a dog is to stubborn to quit or his brain has not kicked in and tells the dog that this track is to weak to run
tell me what you think

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Registered: Jun 2003
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I can agree with you to a point but,what about the dog that boo hoos on that cold track ,works it out and gets it treed.I know most coon hunters today dont want that but the big game hunters do(for the most part)When it comes down to it if your theory is right then it must be ability that is the deciding factor.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

Having owned several hundred hounds (beagles and coonhounds) and these days, Mt Curs, I know that all dogs can not smell the same scents, some dogs have a much better sense of smell than others. And to me, cold trailing is NOT boo hooing around on a track. I have see hot nosed dogs do that. Cold trailing is taking a track other good dogs can't smell, moving it out quickly and turning into a hotter trail that the other dogs can smell. There are few really good cold trailers around. Alot of what most people call cold trailers are idiots that need to be culled.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Montana
Posts: 424

that a hound that runs a 10-14 hour bobcat track on snow, or a hound that runs a 12 your old bear track from a bait station or a hound that runs a 1 day old lion track from a tree he was put in the day before as idiots????????????

if so send those idiots to montana we will take them all. The culls are the one's that boo hoo a track and can not move it out of a patch of woods the size of a parking lot! All hounds run tracks differently, we own hounds that I believe will site run an old lion track till it freshens up, that does not make them idiots actually I feel it shows their intelligence. Just my opinion

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Redtick,I used the term boo hoo because that is how tnredman described it.I agree,if the dog works it out and trees or bays it its not boo hooin.But tnredman has raised a point that I never thought of.What if all hounds are born with about the same smelling abilitys? Then there has to be something else that is the deciding factor in what makes a good cold nose dog.You seem to be an intelligent man,even though I dont care for the way you come across at times.Do you know of any medical studies done on hounds that proves that some lines or breeds of hounds have better smelling senory abilities than others?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 1256

tn redman.. i cant tell you how much i disagree.. my best example is a beagle i had. there was no dog i ever saw that wanted to run a rabbit more than her.. ive seen her run till her hind legs gave out and still trying to run.. this dog couldnt run when it was tough running ... she did not have the nose for it... ive seen a dog i had run and tree a coon with three other good dogs could not even smell the track.. i thought she was greatest cold nosed dog ever born. till i saw a dog do almost the same thing to her.... there is a huge difference between dogs just like theres a diference between voices or eyesight in people.. do you say to somebody you got two eyes you just need glasses cause your not too smart... .. there is such a thing as talent.... it is something your born with .. you can improve by training and experience. same as a dog. good cold trailers and cold nosed dogs are born that way , they improve with training and experience. some dogs are cold nosed , some dogs are cold trailers. i know what a boo hooing idiot is. a good cold nosed dog can look bad sometimes. a boo hooing idiot looks bad all the time.. some people confuse this boohooing idiot for a cold trailer.. i agree wuith redtick 100% here.. thats scary . pete

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Registered: Jun 2003
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tnredman ok i went back and read your post over. i missed that 90% have same nose.. so maybe i do agree with you.... ive had people say all dogs the same and its just brains that makes the difference. well ive seen other wise smart dogs that do not and cannot cold trail. they appear to not be able to smell anything except a jumped track on a good day... i have no use for this kind of dog ... ive seen a lot of levels of cold nose. basically two different kinds of cold nosed dog. one kind will walk if he has to to grub out a track... he boo hoos a little . he will do whatever he has to to get this track going and very valuable to big game hunters that may be after one particular cat or bear or this is the only track they might find today or even is several days... a lot of coonhunters wont apprecate this dog .......he probably will go backwards often.. he might look like a boo hooing idiot if let go the wrong way or on too old a track but this dog is still worth his weight in gold sometimes to a big game hunter. ............... another will fly on a track that other dogs cant even smell, he may not have patience to grub a track but on a little better track will smoke that track grubbing dog.. almost every body appreciates this type of dog. i only call this dog cold nosed cause ive seen them do it when other dogs cant wag their tail... it something you have to see to believe. both of these dogs would be in your 10% category. sometimes i read this stuff to fast and my brain aint what it could be. pete

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
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I have an article on the March issue of the 1988 issue of Coonhound Bloodlines on a test to test a dog's nose. I know it is in there because that issue had some dogs I am very fond of in it. Regardless of what that article says, (I an not for sure but I will look it up), I know all dogs do not smell things the same way. For the most part, houndier looking dogs have a better noses than Cur looking hounds (I know exceptions) and how a dog uses his nose is determined by his brain (intelligence). Finding the right combination of nose, intelligence, and the ability of the trainer to get it out of the dog is rare these days. I breed for intelligence first and I have a strain that throws some good cold nosed dogs. I know of few people, other than some of today's big game hunters, that breed for a nose and most of today's competition bred hounds have the nose bred out of them. There are areas where a dog has to have brains and a nose to tree many coon, but alot of places, a hot nosed pop up dog will do well. An average Cur will have as good as nose as most of today's hounds and most Curs are alot more intelligent. These are just my opinions but I believe they will hold up.

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Last edited by Redtick on 07-14-2003 at 12:56 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 98

hey guy's I have a red dog that has a very cold nose and somtimes I hate him for it!!! I have seen him work tracks for over an hour and then come up with the coon. And have seen him fall short too. I think a cold nose hound will come up short more than a med to hot nose dog will. I have seen this dog tree coon others didn't know were there but he will get you into trouble in the night hunt's on strick point's. I also think he doesn't know which way to run one somthimes.If I had to pick I would like a med nose dog that is a fast locator over the cold nose. It also has alot to do with where you live I live in nc. Just my thought's

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: east tennessee
Posts: 141

let me give you my definition of boo hooing:
a dog who is OPENING on a track in area for more than 30 minutes and has not figgered out which way the track goes or has treed if a dog who can use his nose and brain to work out a bad track and tree it is different I know dog who have been minused for the 1 hr rule because they are trailing in the same area without any success and is just trailing backward and forward
let me give you an example of what i was talking about above
I live in the mtns of east tenn I was born and raised in the mtns of western N.C.
say you buy a real dog from Ind. up there he is running and treeing lots of coons but you are hunting 10 or 15 ac. squares
and the dog looks good. you buy and bring him home to the mtns

(I have seen this happen ALOT) you take him out with your other dogs who have learned if they want to tree a coon they have to work for it!!! your dogs open on a cold track well your new dog does not put in he comes back and later your dogs come treed and have the coon. this goes on for about a week or so and you are getting discouraged with the dog finally one nite your new dog puts in on the track (cold track) and runs and trees with the other dog and as the nites go on your new dog is doing just as well as the rest because now he is motivated enough to use the nose he was born with to trail a colder coon track he could always had the nose but up north the coons are more abundant and tracks are hotter so he thought he didnt have to work so hard on a coon track to tree it... like i said before this happens 90% of the time not 100% and I wasnt talking about all dogs just COONHOUNDS and there are a few exceptional nosed dogs out there i could give you more examples but I dont want to bore ya'll to much

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
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Good cold nosed dogs do not take forever to tree a coon, most of the good ones I have seen run a track fairly fast and they don't jack a track back and forth, those dogs are idiots. I really don't think many of you folks ever went to the woods with a good cold nosed dog. There are alot of dogs that make a Grand Nite Champion where the coon pop up easy that can not tree a coon in the mountains where a dog has to work to tree a coon. That is one of the reasons I never breed for titles.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Trussville, Alabama
Posts: 532

After reading Redtick's last post, and based on his discription of a cold nosed dog. And hunting in the mountains as we do here. How would you discribe that Brandy dog we hunted with?


Randy Langston

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
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How would you describe "Goody", a dog you hunted with?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 36

I have coon hunted and bear hunted here in the mnt's of East TN, in the mnt's of Western N.Carolina, at the coast of N. Carolina and in lakes and beaver dams in Canada and a sure enough trail dog can make a bad track look good wherever you are hunting. He want stand on his head going back and fourth. He will take it and move with it. My opinion however is that it takes a dog with a cold nose but must have the brains to use it. I'm not saying any of you don't know what a cold trailing hound is but Forsure alot of people have no idea.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
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The dog that taught me what cold-nosed dogs really are was an old English female out of Nt. Ch. Don's Platte Valley Ringo and Lamb's Spring Creek Sis.

I had a good young Blue dog at the time that could out-trail most of the dogs I hunted him with. But this old gyp would tree coon on a regular basis that he didn't know existed.

My hunting buddy, who is now my Brother-in-law, had a Nt. Ch. English female that was high-scoring English female at the Ukc World Hunt in 1989. I told him about this old gyp, and he went with me and hunted his bitch against her. She treated his bitch worse than she did my Blue dog.

The old female had a horn bawl mouth and a ringing chop on tree, and could FLY on a good track. It didn't take her long to make good tracks out of bad tracks.

I was so impressed with the old female that I took my young dog to a hunt, placed him, and sold him for enough money to buy the old female. I never regretted it. She taught me more about cold-trailing ability than I ever suspected before she came along.

Since then, I have had one hound that was her caliber, a Diamond Jim and Uchtman's Ranger III female, now gone where the good ones go. These two gyps would tree coon on the outside that good dogs wouldn't open on.

I don't have what I would call a real cold-nosed hound at my house right now...but I'm always looking.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
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Well,Brandy wasn't cold nosed by my standards,and she wasn't cold nosed by Daves standards either.I know how Daves dogs are bred,and I agree with Dave that she was not typical of that line.
I would like to say one thing about Indiana dogs,which were used in an example above,you wont see them kind of dogs coming from my part of Indiana.I live in Southern Indiana,and it is rough country here.Dang near as bad as what you have in TN,but not quite.I will say that everytime I go to Gatlinburg I always think to myself that I am glad I dont hunt there,lol.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:

---

Originally posted by John Carroll
The dog that taught me what cold-nosed dogs really are was an old English female out of Nt. Ch. Don's Platte Valley Ringo and Lamb's Spring Creek Sis.

I had a good young Blue dog at the time that could out-trail most of the dogs I hunted him with. But this old gyp would tree coon on a regular basis that he didn't know existed.

My hunting buddy, who is now my Brother-in-law, had a Nt. Ch. English female that was high-scoring English female at the Ukc World Hunt in 1989. I told him about this old gyp, and he went with me and hunted his bitch against her. She treated his bitch worse than she did my Blue dog.

The old female had a horn bawl mouth and a ringing chop on tree, and could FLY on a good track. It didn't take her long to make good tracks out of bad tracks.

I was so impressed with the old female that I took my young dog to a hunt, placed him, and sold him for enough money to buy the old female. I never regretted it. She taught me more about cold-trailing ability than I ever suspected before she came along.

Since then, I have had one hound that was her caliber, a Diamond Jim and Uchtman's Ranger III female, now gone where the good ones go. These two gyps would tree coon on the outside that good dogs wouldn't open on.

I don't have what I would call a real cold-nosed hound at my house right now...but I'm always looking.

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: IL.
Posts: 1308

My dogs all have cold noses. I just went out and checked them and when I touched them they seemed nice and cool.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by pete
john . what do you think about the theory that all dogs have the same sense of smell. i think that a dog has such a great sense of smell a human just cant understand it.. when you see a dog like you described its real hard to buy the theory that they all are the same. , pete

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Trussville, Alabama
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Dave, I would decribe Goody as a very nice young dog. And Jeff a good friend. And Handler. NO one said he wasn't or was talking about him. We were talking about Brandy. Point is all the dogs out of your back yard dont turn out. Some do. Some dont. I'd also say if Scott had owned Goody, he would in all probability turned out the same as with Jeff. And the same if Jeff had owned Scotts GRNT's. Both of these guys are top notch handlers and trainers. I have to agree with you to a point some trainers arnt as good as others. I prolly would have messed both dogs up.....LOL
I bought a dog off of Del Hudson about 3 yr's ago, off Jed and a Wild Fire bitch. I think he's turned out to be perty nice dog. I feed him, I can say that...lol I got him to GRCH and won a 1st on him in the hunts thats as far as I've been able to go. NOT the dogs falt but mine. IM just a sorry ass comp handler.... Several hunts he was the best dog by far. But my stupid a$$ keeps shooting my foot off. Point is, never once have I heard from Del or seen posts all over the internet by Del telling folks what a sorry handler I am and I messed up the dog....Del's a class act. I've owned dogs from several well known breeders, Wilcox, Jim Ridge, Rusty Johnson the Rocket scientist all class. You may be 90 Dave and never see the full damage you've caused yourself and the dogs out of your back yard. Wake up.

Randy Langston
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
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Hounster, I know other folks that have hunted with your dog and I know their description of him.
I personally do not believe Goody would have made a Dual Grand Champion at 29 months old if Scott would have had him. I doubt if Jeff would have hunted his dogs but I surely can not speak for Jeff.
Me and my dogs are doing just fine even though you and some of your friends are a constant source of trying to put me down. You guys are learning what I learned a long time ago and some of you will never learn, you just want to bring others down to your level. Sorry, it doesn't work here.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Trussville, Alabama
Posts: 532

Im not trying to bring you down anywhere, I couldn't care less about you. I do how ever care about my friends when someone bashes them. And if moving up a level means being like you, I'd just a soon stay down here with the dumb asses......


Randy Langston

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 1256

john carroll wrote .
Bottom line, I think some dogs have a keener sense of smell tha others, just like some dogs can run faster, see better, etc.


me too john...

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: LOSLUNAS N.M.
Posts: 150

just to let you all know what a cold nose dog really is.
IT IS A DOG THAT CAN TRACK AND TREE A COON THAT YOUR
EASTERN DOGS DO NOT KNOW EXIST. HOW ABOUT NO RAIN, FOR 3 MONTHS , DRY DRY, DRY, GROUND. TEMPERATURES ARE 80 DEGREES AT 11:00 AT NIGHT. HUMIDITY 4%. THINK ANY OF YOUR COLD NOSE DOGS COULD TRACK AND TREE IN THESE CONDITIONS ALL THE TIME.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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Posts: 389

I have been hunting coon since 1970 and owned and trained or helped train about 300 dogs or more . Up here it gets quite cold and the coons move most of the winter so we get a chance to hunt most of the winter.So when a dog goes out a stricks a track in a plowed feild with snow on it and it is 20 degrees out and a dog is picking and grubbing and another dog you hunt with on a regular basis and does well in the summer but at 20 degrees he is running around trying to figure if there is a track while the other dog is grubing & drifting to the warming of the track and finally the other get in there and it can work the track it doen't take long to figure out who has what kind of nose. now this works well up here . Now i beleive all dogs don't have the same abiities some do have more drive that will push them to hunt out faster but if ther tracking abilities come up short .whether it is nose they can't move a track or can't smell a track all the drive in the world won't get them to the right tree if they are standing on their head and a dog with no nose will run around a lot and come down treed on a slick tree with old sent or coon crap or just tree out of frustartion, just my opiion with 30 some yrs of chaseing these crazy dogs

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