Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/...ght=0,45,degree

This is one of the BEST descriptions of judging that illustrates angulation that you're going to find.

__________________
SKY
___________________
Author of the novel "Follow Jennifer"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

Why do most Nite Champions have better angulation than bench show winners?
COMPARE!

__________________
SKY
___________________
Author of the novel "Follow Jennifer"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

This is a Breed that several hundred of years old that was Bred for Ability and Conformation hand and hand ..

I'm a Inspector and Judge in another KC .. And these are the Line I'm Looking for and sim. to what was stated in the other post ..

These photos are of my hound in a Natural State as She Stoped Movement .. She is Over Erect in both Photos cuz She was watching the other hounds hunting .. But Her body lines are shown well ..

As you can see in both Photos the Angle of the Pasteur
in relation to the up right fore leg .. Any Strighter a Pasteur
couses Shock to the Shoulder ..






Heres a 1940 Photo of "Scout" Bill Greens Hound .. He's a Big Hound but has all the Proper Lines and the flex in the pasteur ..
No Post Leg .. This hound could pound out tracks for Days !!

So They don't need to look like a Grayhound to be Built Correct ..

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Last edited by Majestic Tree H on 07-08-2010 at 03:24 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: virginia
Posts: 7042

GOOD POST

__________________

CB&L KENNELS
HOME OF TREETALKIN
BLACK & TANS
CORKY CROWDER
BRANDON MAYO
LINDA CROWDER
PR TREETALKIN LITTLE SASSY
TREETALKIN TROOPERS BLEW
TREETALKIN RANGER DANGER
TREETALKIN LIL SHOOTEM UP JAKE
GRCHPR TREETALKIN NIGHTHAWK GONE BUT NEVER WILL BE FORGOTTEN R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

Those are good looking well built hounds.

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2007
Location: missouri
Posts: 1356

yes thanks. The point is a better hound. regardless of who is showing it.

congradulations to everyone.
now lets better the breed.

__________________
Get a Real Stud Dog That Reproduces... Not One that wins a Title himself. But gives you a litter of CoonDogs.!!!

Grand Nite Champion Turpins Stylish Rube.

Sire of World Champion "Insane Jane"

Also another--Hamptons Stylish Jewel Placing 9th in The UKC World Hunt Last Year. She Took Them to 14th Place This Year !!!

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh85/HuntingFamily/100_1125.jpg

"Turpins Stylish Rube" Breeding Females with 400 million live sperm/98% motility

"High Quality Sperm, like His Dad Stylish Hickory Nut Harry" Dr. Kenneth O'Hanlon-All Pets Medical Center, Altus, Ok.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Canton, NC
Posts: 721

exactly why all of my dogs that i show in the all breed ring are out of old hunting lines that can still track, not just tree.
& why i don't bench show. :-)

__________________
C. Michelle Brown
Lunar Cacophony Hounds ~ Striving for the Total Hound

Home of the UKC's Most Titled Coonhound
URO2 GRFCH GRWCH FO NITECH CCH GRCH
'PR' Chelle's Heartstop'n Spot "Adonis" HTX (TW)
aka "The Baroo Dog"

URO1 GRFCH CGRCH GRCH 'PR' Chelle's Heartstop'n Rocket Man "Rocket" (TW)
CH PR' Chelle's Heartstop'n Fly Me Courageous "Apollo" (TW)
ZigZag Swag in Mtn Black (feist)


FO GRFCH GRCH 'PR' Chelle's Swash Buckler "Porthos" (RED)
(11/21/95-05/30/09 ~ always & forever, my one)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

But I would like to see all those lines on a hound Before their "Stacked Up On The Bench"

But their hard to see when their Trotted up and Back real fast .. They need to Slow it down abit and judge needs to look for the side lines also, You can't Judge the total Flex from the Front and Rear

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2007
Location: WESTERN MARYLAND
Posts: 5946

MAJESTIC, I WOULD LIKE THE WAY YOU JUDGE. TO MANY OF THE BENCH SHOW ONLY DOGS AND THERE HANDLERS ARE TO GOOD AT STACKING THEM TO MAKE THEM LOOK GOOD.

I LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW ONLY HANDLERS WHEN THEY COME TO THE SMALL SHOWS. THEY WALK AROUND AND ACT LIKE THEY ARE ALL THAT. TALKING TO EVERYONE ABOUT ALL THERE BIG SHOW WINS ( MOST OF THE GUYS AT THE LOCAL CLUBS COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE SHOWS). BUT WHEN THEY GET BEAT, THEY TURN REAL ARROGANT AND WILL LEAVE INSTEAD OF MORE TALKING.

WHAT ABOUT THE SHOW CLICKS THAT HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT, HECK THEY CAN NOT EVEN GET ALONG WITH THERE OWN.

WELL ENOUGH VENTING AND I KINDA GOT OFF TRACK. SORRY, LOL.

FINALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CLASS AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS OF DOGS THAT WERE ACTUALLY HUNTED AND ENTERED IN HUNTS.

__________________
Home of;

Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Gr.WCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Crystal
Ntch. GrCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Magic
Gr.Nt.Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Hawk
Nt. Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Rage
all are gone now but will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN


CH. PR. MCMILLANS TREE ROCKIN BRANDY
CH. PR. MCMILLANS MIDNITES STINGIN SADIE

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 134

There is its called dual champoin class

FINALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CLASS AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS OF DOGS THAT WERE ACTUALLY HUNTED AND ENTERED IN HUNTS. [/B][/QUOTE]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

I had to do abit of Searching to Find ex. what angle you should be looking for and found the Quote

"The pastern has a length of approximately 1/3 of the forearm;
the angle between them is 20° to 22°.
A weak pastern (angle more than 22°) or a steep pastern (angle less than
20°) affect the dog’s working suitability, especially his endurance."

But another "Kennel Club" when requarding the Treeing Walker says "Slightly Slanting"

Forequarters
Forelegs – Straight and parallel to each other, from elbow to pastern. Pastern, from the joint to the top of the foot is strong and distinct, slightly slanting but standing almost perpendicular to the ground. Faults – out at the elbow, crooked forelegs, weak pasterns, knuckling over.

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Last edited by Majestic Tree H on 07-09-2010 at 03:41 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2007
Location: WESTERN MARYLAND
Posts: 5946

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jim Martinson
There is its called dual champoin class

FINALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CLASS AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS OF DOGS THAT WERE ACTUALLY HUNTED AND ENTERED IN HUNTS.

---

__________________
Home of;

Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Gr.WCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Crystal
Ntch. GrCh. Pr. McMillans Blue Magic
Gr.Nt.Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Hawk
Nt. Ch. Pr. McMillans Blue Rage
all are gone now but will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN


CH. PR. MCMILLANS TREE ROCKIN BRANDY
CH. PR. MCMILLANS MIDNITES STINGIN SADIE

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 1012

quote:

---

Originally posted by rmcmillan

---

BUT IS IT AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS? WORLD, AO, ALL BREED DAYS, GRAND AMERICAN ETC. ???? [/B][/QUOTE]

I can't speak for ALL breed days...but yes, there is a dual champions class at Grand American, Winter Classic, and Autumn Oaks. I know they have duals at Walker Days, and I believe I've seen results from some of the other breed days as well. I like the duals class myself, though my own dual CH is nothing I personally would put on a bench in public

__________________
------------------------------
Poison Whiskey Coonhounds
Jessica O'Connor
CH'PR'Moss Blue Carolina Rain-Queen of Show, BBOA Zone 6 Championship
NITECH CH 'PR' Carolina Flo
CH 'PR' Poison Whiskey Waylon
CH 'PR' Cruse's I'm Your Huckleberry
CH'PR' PoisonWhiskey WildHoney
'PR' Poison Whiskey CowgirlsDontCry
CH'PR' Bowers & O'Connor's Foxy Roxy
PoisonWhiskey SonOfTheSouth

Poison Whiskey Hello Darlin'-2013 AL State BMOS, AL State Hall of Fame King of Show

PoisonWhiskey LilMsHonkyTonk

Coming Soon...
PoisonWhiskeyMaybeItWasMemphis
PoisonWhiskey Heart Like Mine
-------------------------
In loving memory...
CCH GRCH 'PR' Swampland Blue Gypsy-RIP sweet girl
'PR' Miller Time

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Jefferson Ohio~ ashtabula co
Posts: 907

great post needs to say at the top!

__________________
Heart Throb Coon Hounds and
show supplies
contact info: 440-645-7875 or
Heart.throbcoonhounds@gmail.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Jefferson Ohio~ ashtabula co
Posts: 907

btt

__________________
Heart Throb Coon Hounds and
show supplies
contact info: 440-645-7875 or
Heart.throbcoonhounds@gmail.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

Steve,

I am going to take some pics of my female hound and send them to you. I want you to judge her for me.

She is out of hunting stock/show stock. She is a big girl, not fat by any means, just a big female.

Thanks. I have wondered many times about this. I think there are some lessons in this some of the "bench show" judges need to be looking over.....

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

I would be glad too !! Sometimes its tough to see the Joints to do the Angulation from a photo .. A good Relaxed photo in a natural position helps to see them.

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 3709

I will take them of her while she is just "out".
I don't care about the stacking part of it. Anyone can show a dog. I want her to show herself.

Thanks. My new camera is going to be here on Monday. I'll try it out and send you some to look at for me.

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 134

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 1600

He's a bit throaty and his head is kinda big but other than that he's pretty good. He moves nice AND can tree a coon when I let him

Good post Sonia.

__________________
Jessica McRae
3 Color Kennel
Treeing Walker Coonhounds and German Shepherd Dogs

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

He sure looks good. !!

He has a real good mesurment from the tip of his nose to the stop and is equal from his stop to the back of skull.

His Ears are hung just right and have a very good length and I really like the roll ..

He shows some angulation in the pasturn ..

His Shoulder Angle is Very good at a sharp 90^s

But His Fore leg is a bit long stacking him a bit high in the front

His top line is great with a slight arch in the loin .

Lungs and rib look very good showing a Great lung Capacity
They extend to his elbows and well back before aching up to his mid line .

His Rump and Hips look strong .

His rear angulation looks good even tho he's slightly exended ..

What a Great looking hound !!

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Last edited by Majestic Tree H on 07-24-2010 at 04:24 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

I have always admired this hound Jessica.
Good critique Majestic.
Now all we need to do is
EDUCATE THE BENCH SHOW JUDGES ON CORRECT
CONFORMATION
and use those who KNOW CONFORMATION &
DISREGARD "NAME" HANDLERS & ADVERTSIED WINNERS.
A BSJ should be able to recognize correct conformation & should be able to evaluate dogs on the ground and on the bench regardless of handlers' skills on the bench. The artificial, "stand on toenails", straight shoulders, straight rears, post legs, shallow chests, lack of prosternum development should be recognized and NOT rewarded.

__________________
SKY
___________________
Author of the novel "Follow Jennifer"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

Here is his Mark-Up and you can see the Slightly Long Fore Leg
I would guess maybe 3/4" ..



Look See even his X-Ray Looks Good .... LOL

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

I would like to see a Dual Champion Class offered at EVERY bench show and a title awarded after 5 wins under THREE DIFFERENT BENCH SHOW JUDGES.

Also, I'd like to see an additional NiteCh & GrNtCh category added at every bench show - could be divided as to Jr/Sr & Veteran (over 7 years) in those categories and then compete for Best working Coonhound, with points awarded accordingly for a title. Maybe THEN we'd get more correct hounds on the bench & some of the coonhunters would feel more welcome participating at bench shows.

__________________
SKY
___________________
Author of the novel "Follow Jennifer"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 1600

THANKS!!! I really like him and would like to see what he'll produce.

Skyblu I agree I can't understand why judges pick dogs that are board straight in the rear with bad chest and so on.

__________________
Jessica McRae
3 Color Kennel
Treeing Walker Coonhounds and German Shepherd Dogs

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged