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Pat Bizich
Banned

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Most over used as well as incorrect use of a rule

Some time ago Todd K. asked our opinion on this forum about what we felt was the most misapplied rule.
I never saw it go any further but I stated that I felt it was the DELETE POINTS rule.
I think this rule is the one of most misapplied rules.

Let me explain.
Almost every week I hear from someone about how points have been deleted .I then will have to tell them that they were wrong and why.
Just this morning I got a call about a hunt last night.
Here is what happened .Dog A was treed alone.5 minutes are up and Handler of dog B insists on treeing his dog.
The hunting judge says okay but you will go in for 125.Now the real fun starts as the three handlers disagree with the judge.They go into the tree and both dog A and B are on the tree and it is slick. The judge wants to minus Dog B on his strike and tree .The other three handlers disagree .The judge is unable to find the rule (rule 4(k))which applies on the back of the card.They over rule the judge 3-1 and say because the dog came into a closed tree they should delete all his points.
The judge with draws but continues on the hunt. Dog B wins the cast and gets a first place. If the points had been properly applied Dog C would have won the cast as well as a 1st place instead.The judge did not want to question it as he had nothing to gain .It also was under a hunt panel .
I know it is just as much dog C handlers fault for not knowing the rules and losing the cast and I was told he was one of the handlers most argueing to delete.

On several other occasions I have heard because a vote is 2-2 on either minus ,plus, or circle .Because no one can agree on a majority the cast is deleting the strike and tree points.
On some other occasions I have heard guys pulling dogs off bad tracks to go to another dump and deleting the points.

I think the deleting of points needs to be rediscussed and clarified as when it is appropriate to delete points.

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
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One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
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Old Post 05-05-2013 10:09 PM
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JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

You are right and you make some great points.

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Old Post 05-05-2013 10:29 PM
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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

I think most of the DELETE mistakes come from guys that hunt both KCs. I think the most abused rule is the timeout rule. Hit a quick one and move is a great way to build a big score, but it makes drawing the right guide the biggest part of the hunt.

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Old Post 05-05-2013 11:09 PM
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jculler8
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You are right and you make some great points.


I agree Patty!

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PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

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Old Post 05-05-2013 11:28 PM
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chuck west
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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 10675

BTT

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Old Post 05-06-2013 03:16 PM
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Pat Bizich
Banned

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

I know this is happening too much and needs addressed.So I am bringing this back up.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

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Old Post 05-07-2013 01:01 PM
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DANNY RAMEY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2008
Location: ga
Posts: 249

i haven't hunted a comp hunt in a year or so but i'd say when i did hunt alot the most abused rule was people questioning the judge constantly wanting to argue about rules or how things we're done. people want to tell the judge how he should be judging the cast. this is where all the arguing comes from. the judge even if its his first time shouldn't be persuaded or questioned by other cast members even if hes wrong. if he's wrong then question the call on the card. don't get it wrong not saying not to help sort an honest mistake out but you gotta call all the cast together before getting in the judges ear about a rule. and at the club you'll have everyone trying to pass off the scorecard and get to the woods and their an expert. if your an expert and want it judged perfectly then you should have judged don't start telling another judge how to do his job. i beleive the authority of the judge has been undermined. so the last hunts i was at i would let it be known i was the judge and it was my cast and if you got a question we'll vote on it or put a ?.. so i guess the most abused rule would be interferring with judges decisions and calls is the most abused.

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Old Post 05-07-2013 03:55 PM
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bd2440
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Wells, tx
Posts: 105

I say the most abused rule in this kc is the circle points on scoring trees. Simply due to the fact that you have to have plus points to win your cast. nothing wrong with having to have plus points but it sure changes the scoring of the trees.

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Old Post 05-07-2013 04:29 PM
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walkerdawg740
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2006
Location: ohio
Posts: 254

I would like to be able to take a panel back to a previously scroed tree after a vote has accured

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Old Post 05-07-2013 05:26 PM
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DANNY RAMEY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2008
Location: ga
Posts: 249

i would like to see when something like what happened in the original story . if buddys out vote the cast on something thats clearly wrong and against the rules be called out and punished for it. that if the cast votes on it theres nothing that can be done needs to be changed

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Old Post 05-07-2013 07:14 PM
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walkerdawg740
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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: ohio
Posts: 254

Thats where taking a panel back to a scored tree would have an effect...no more buddy system for circling slicks

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Old Post 05-07-2013 08:04 PM
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jculler8
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

quote:
Originally posted by DANNY RAMEY
i would like to see when something like what happened in the original story . if buddys out vote the cast on something thats clearly wrong and against the rules be called out and punished for it. that if the cast votes on it theres nothing that can be done needs to be changed


Won't happen. I already did that. Question was brought back to MOH and MOH refused non hunting judge, scratched 1 guy and gave the card back to original judge. Filed formal complaint vs entire cast and MOH... very little if anything was done about it. The formal complaint system has too many holes.

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OAKS POINT KENNELS

HOME OF

PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

CH 'PR' CHERRY CREEK XBOX 2016 Treeing Walker Days King of Show

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Old Post 05-07-2013 09:00 PM
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Plott55
Banned

Registered: Mar 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 217

RULES

PEOPLE SEEM TO FORGET!!!! ON A COMPETITION HUNT THERE ARE LIVE PEOPLE, LIVE DOGS, AND LIVE COON!!! EACH GROUP HAS A SEPERATE MIND AND ALSO DIFFERENT TYPES OF MINDS. HUNTS ARE KIND OF LIKE MURPHY'S LAW=-WHAT CAN HAPPEN WILL HAPPEN== IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE RULES TO COVER EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN.

IF YOU GUYS WANT TO COMPETITION HUNT==HAVE AT IT==BUT AS AN INDIVITUAL DON'T EVER EVER EVER EXPECT EVERYTHING TO TURN OUT LIKE YOU WANT IT TO!!!

JUST HUNT AND LET NATURE TAKE ITS COURSE!!! THAT'S WHAT ALWAYS HAPPENS ANYWAY.

I WAS AT THE 3rd ACHA HUNT IN 1950 AND A GUY WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE RULES, SO JUST THINK, IT'S NOTHING NEW!!! SOME OF YOU YOUNG GUY'S WILL BE AROUND IN 2048 TO CELEBRATE THE 100th YEAR OF HUNTS,AND GUESS WHAT== I PREDICT THERE WILL BE SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE RULES!!!!


The Ole Plott Man

Last edited by Plott55 on 05-08-2013 at 07:05 AM

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