Registered: Jun 2003
Location: minnesota
Posts: 1799

i have decided to change topic to the breed i hunt. again i want honest opinions on what people think the redbone faults are,with ones you hunted against or pleasure hunted with, maybe say what you liked about them to. be honest and maybe redbone people will gain some knowelege they don't see becasue it's the breed they hunt.

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LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 4724

compared to the ones that I hunted with in the 70's............they lack trailing ability on cold tracks,and bog down on looses on old feeding tracks..........you asked, buddy.......just my 2 cents........ya get my PM??...........last Redbone Grand Nite I judged was a me-too hound...........hunted with him by himself 2 nights, and he treed 1 hot track, boohooed on 2 cold ones..............please don't ask about what hound it was on here.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

LOL Wade, I usually just start a fight with my wife if I want this kind of abuse.....

But since you ask..........As a breed, they lack drive. Most I have drawn out with dont hunt at all untill the other dogs get somthing started, even if by some miracle a dog like that winns a cast, no one will have anything good to say about it.

Most guys dont mind getting beat by a coondog, but to get a win like that leaves a bad taste in ones mouth.

On a positive note: they sure are purdeeee.....

Last edited by josh on 01-22-2004 at 05:20 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 414

they lack hunters.to many are in the hands of show doggers. breeding pretty to pretty dont make coon dogs breedin ablity to ablity makes them.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sylva, North Carolina (the far Western Tip of the State)
Posts: 10272

Most of the ones that we've hunted with lacked drive, and the want to find a coon. When you turn them loose, the mill around. Then, when they hear that first dog bark, they spring into action, and all of a sudden, there is a hot track there.

I've saw quite a few decent, hot nosed Redbones. But, I wouldnt give you a penny for a cold nosed one. We have saw more empty trees with my buddies cold nosed Redbone than you can shake a stick at.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location:
Posts: 374

Drive, heart, and tree.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Rosman, North Carolina
Posts: 883

I have only hunted with two redbones since we had one when I was a kid. That ol grade red dog we had when I was a kid was a real coondog. I mean flat out coondog. Brains, hunt, and tree. Smart, smart old dog. We never did get any pups worth a doo out of that old dog though and all of a sudden there weren't any redbones around. That in itself is a problem. They are just flat out hard to find around here.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1734

HAVENT HUNTED WITH 2 MANY. I DID GET MY START INTO COONHUNTIN WITH AN IMBRED RED DOG. HE COULD TREE A COON AND STAY TILL YA GOT THERE BUT WAS MEAN AS HELL. LOL.
NOW I DONT CONSIDER HIM WHEN THINKIN OF RED DOGS AS HE WAS INBRED SO TIGHT THAT IT WOULD MAKE DAVE DEAN GASP LOL.

HUNTED WITH A DANDY RED LAST YR A FEW TIMES. WOULD GET STRUCK AND GET TREED AND STAY TREED NO MATTER IF WITH COMPANY OR BY HISSELF. NICE LOUD BAWL MOUTH ON TRACK AND NICE STAY PUT TREEDOG. IF THEY WAS ALL LIKE HIM YOUD BE SET IN THE REDBONE BREED. TIM HOECK FROM SIOUX FALLS SD OWNS HIM.

THIS IS BOUT THE ONLY REDBONE I KNOW OF AROUND THESE PARTS. HECK THE PRETTY RED SHOW DOGS HAVENT EVEN BEEN AROUND. LOL

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

you all say that the show people have bred the hunt out of them, lol, but as show dogs they are lacking proper build to do the work they were bred for. Over half the redbones I see in person and pics are missing something major that I think throws off the total dog. a dog with a good rear end has a weak front end and vice verse, dogs that are seriously post legged. very few redbones I see on the bench are totally built. I think it's more common in the other breeds to see more total developement all around. it's very hard to pass up a well porportioned redbone on the bench in contrast to other breeds since it's so few you actually see.

but that's just my opinion from what I have seen

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

Sooooo...Starplott, Your saying they would be more competitive in the hunts if they would win more shows?

Now my head hurts..........

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

just commenting on the amount of finger pointing going on in the breed. I have a hard time biting off that the show dog people have ruined the hunt ability in the redbone breed. if they were the cause you'd see better built redbones on the bench from better show breeding. both the hunting and show breeders need to get together on this breed and work out some sort of breeding program because if it's as bad in the woods as you all say and it's the way I have seen redbones on the bench you both have a LONG ways to go.

don't take me wrong, I am not bagging on the breed at all, I'm still waiting to find a redbone that has the hunt drive and desire I want and also has the structure I am looking for. probably would've saved myself a lot of headache with the decade of walkers if I had been able to find what I wanted in the redbones. Probably wouldn't have gotten into plotts either since redbones was my first breed of hound I was interested in.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

I m sure Wade dosent want this to be a show bashing thread, and that isnt my intent.

I dont usually go to bench shows, I am the guy that pulls in just in time to register for the hunt.....I cant help but notice all the redbones tied out as I walk into the clubhouse, and yet,,,,stragely enough, most are packing up to leave.


Its hard not to draw conclusions from that.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: minnesota
Posts: 1799

josh i agree but you should also point out the fact that there is other breeds leaving the same time. and star plott you can put all the looks in a hound you want but truth is if they have the desire,heart,drive, it don't matter if they have a leg sticking out of there head no back feet and missing ears the will go tree you a coon somewhere, but know take apretty one with perfect confirmation and give no heart ,drive,desire and that all you got is a pretty one.. now i for one own and hunt daul purpose dogs and breed for that and they comp hunt fine and win ther share of shows to boot. so in saying this the people who are going strictly for a hunting dog will never hurt the breed. but people just breeding for show will , in writting this i hope i did not offend anyone in what they are doing.


this is what i feel the redbone breed is lacking. everyone got there own dogs and breeds them together. will go out a buy a dog from someone just to get a breeding pair not knowing if they are compatiable(breeding for the wrong reasons) i also feel the redbone breed is strain blind( i found myself doing this at times)(but not no more) to many out there that can not improve the breed and need to go to a pile and not given away as pets so another guy can find a mating pair to breed and create 10 more culls.

__________________
LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

lol, Josh.

I've only drawn about 2 redbones in the hunts in the last several years so I won't make any generalized judgements about the breeds' traits.

More than anything, it looks to me like the good ones aren't getting put in hunts, much. Some will say thats because there are no good ones, but I can't believe that. Maybe they belong to someone that doesn't like to handle in hunts but there are always guys wanting to handle something that can win so it isn't that hard to find a handler for a good dog.

So, my suggestion is for you guys to look, OBJECTIVELY, at your hounds and your buddys' hounds. If they can hunt, strike, and tree coons and do it halfway right, then handle them in some hunts, or beg, hire, or force someone else to. If your buddy has a good hound, then pester him to death until he does the same thing, lol.

The other thing is that it will help the breed, any breed, more to put a good coondog in a hunt and lose than to put a crapeater in a hunt and win or lose.

Put a good one in a hunt and win, and word will spread far and wide and coonhunters' ears will start perking up.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location:
Posts: 375

IMHO consistency is what is lacking in the breed. There are some good ones around but they are so few and so far between I can't imagine starting out in coonhunting and going with red dogs.

I have only hunted with two in my life that I thought could perform/compete at the highest level. But I've hutned with several that would tree coon. Overall, I've seen a lack of drive/desire when things really get tough but maybe I just haven't hunted with the right dog.

I've always wanted to have an outstanding redbone and I keep telling myself that one day I'll get me a pup raise it up and try to make one.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 1405

you got my point. the problem is not the show breeders breeding the hunt out of them nor the hunters breeding the conformation out of them. it's the fact that there is no solid breeding program as a whole that is trying to meet the total dog. this is the same thing that has ruined the labs, dobes, germal shepherds, rotties, on down the list with AKC.

I cringe when I hear that inbreeding has ruined this breed and that breed when it's the exact opposite. it's the lack of a uniform breeding structure being used by those breeding. when a breed becomes popular people go out an buy to cash in. all they care about is the fact they have a male and female to produce puppies as these are not dog breeders obtaining these dogs. a lot of these people really look at dogs as an extention of humans and shun line breeding all together and label it in breeding. next thing you know several generations have passed and the majority of the breed is messed up and lacking in the ability to do what it was bred to do and the structure it was designed to do that work. Good honest breeders that get a hold of the breed or have stayed true to it are having a smaller gene pool to pull from and have to compete against the inferior pups being bred.

In the mean time both sides of the spectrum are pointing at the other side of the fense as to the cause of the deterioration of the breed in general when in fact it's the middle man. I have seen this in all popular breeds and breeds that movies have been made on. Have seen it in redbones, see it in walkers right now to be honest. Popularity has a real bad effect on a breed and it takes many generations to get back to the consistancy the breed once had before the poularity hit it.

take a look at the german shepherd and the lab. you look at the breed standards from 60 years ago and what was winning shows and look today at the same. BOTH conformation and ability have suffered. I get rotties and dobes and shepherds that owners bring in for testing for personal protection or police work. They seem to think that they have the ability in their dog because of the 'breed' they chose. I've yet to run into one of these that have passed the basic tests to even be a personal protection dog, which is the lowest of drive. Most all are fear biters, overly passive, or just plain old dingy in temperment. 90% of the american german shepherds don't even have the physical ability to do the work even if they had the drive because of the way the americans have ruined their angulation. That's why we buy and breed dogs from over seas in Holland where the Americans haven't ruined breeding programs to this date or from the Czechs.

Over seas I hear the jokes all the time that we Americans breed our dogs like we breed our people, fat, dumb, and lazy. The sad fact is that with the majority of the breeds I have worked with the last 20+ years that have been 'americanized', they are not far off base. Unfortunatly the redbone breed has suffered just like the others. Walkers are headed that way as well if we don't watch it. Too many people trying to make a buck in a world they know nothing and care nothing about. Not the show dog people or the hunting dog people. You all just have to fix it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Comer, Georgia
Posts: 4724

I'm NOT LAZY!!!LOL

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Registered: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 67

I do not show dogs, but all my dogs [3] would show . becouse the stress on a dog body,while hunting ,Is a big thing ,and I want my dogs mind on coon .Not ,how much his feet ,legs ,hip ,ect. are hurting.when I go to the trouble to train a dogs .I want to know 8to 10 years later I can still hunt that dog I think the like of single registered hounds to day has hurt all breeds. That is what put the walkers at the top,If you go back to the 50ty and look at the worid champions. That are single reg. or from singleg reg. parents. You will be supprised.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

Quite possibly the best dog, night in and night out that I ever hunted with was an old Magill bred Redbone female years ago. I'd be happy to follow one just like her right now, no matter what color.

But other than her, I have never hunted with one I would call a top hound.

I know there are some out there; I'd like to go up and hunt with Old Timer and some of his Blakesley bred stock.

But overall, I don't think the breed has the drive and tree power most competition hunters want.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: indiana
Posts: 560

I haven't hunted with alot of reds, mainly the ones(2) I've owned and my buddies,but lack of drive, desire to find coon, tree power looks, I may just be lucky then cause you don't want to stand in front of the dog box when this one comes out or you'll get run over LOL


he also don't care what other dogs are doing, don't need them to start a track etc.Heck I couldn't even tell you if he's built good or not but he does look good to me like this most of the timeLOL.Yes I can already hear it,but I don't get all fired up about competition hunting and thats about all I can say since I've only hunted with a handfull of reds. P.S. I hope I didn't stray to far off the topic LOL

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location:
Posts: 374

Hey bns3, How old is that dog? Looks like a nice tree dog. If he's like you described, is he for sale?

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: indiana
Posts: 560

he will be 6 this summer. No he will diein my kennels or if bad luck strikes out huniting.I kinda been feeling out who has been putting the best reds on the ground for a replacement one day.These are the dogs I started with and will always try to keep one around LOL

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

BNS3

That ain't what "crawdad" says about your dog!!! LOL

He sure looks good all stretched out on that tree.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: indiana
Posts: 560

Yea probably ,ask him about going rabbit hunting with me last week.The night before he said we'd be killing rabbits all day, heck we where lucky to get the one yep thats right one (1) rabbit to run half a circle LMAO.although Ol crawdad will prob back up on that story LOL

Hey get ahold of Sanders maybe we can hunt up this way before season goes out, worst case the reservoir, I can bring my plott pup and see if she can keep up with them walkurs LOL

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: macon
Posts: 25

I am a very devoted redbone man and I feel like I owned one of the best females that was ever hunted. I was unable to get any offspring from her because I could not find a quality driven redbone here in the south, and i refused to breed to anything just to get pups. when she was 10 she would out hunt most dogs that were in there prime. I dont know what the kennel clubs are going to do but i feel that they should split register a redbone. Until it met a title for hunting it should be registered as a Redbone Hound. Once it met a title it should then be classififed a coonhound, but a dog that is just showed and never unted and soley bred for that purpose should not be titled a coonhound.
we also need to have a redbone coonhound cullying meeting. where everyone brings their culls and we dig holes for them. never seel a cull to pawn him off on someone else. i am now left with an empty kennel and no dog to hunt becasue i cannot find a dog with the same drive that my old girl had. and i have hunted with about everyline except for Guy and Wade Luckings line.
I hope to have another red dog soon.


Wooley Swamp Kennels
Byron Ga
home of the late huntin hollows Tx girl


sulphur river buck
huntin hollows Tx girl
darlas lil red penny

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