Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Kimball,Michigan
Posts: 5

The opinions expressed here are mine and I want to make this clear before we begin.Please tell me if I am incorrect or out of line as I am trying to be fair about this!
I have my own methods of training my dogs that others don't agree with and that is ok . Some people use shock collars to break dogs from bad habits ,others use shocking bark collars to stop there dogs from barking all the time (in the kennel and when they are not hunting) and some people use pinch collars that do nothing more than apply pinching pressure to the dogs neck area to stop the dog from pulling while they are on the leash. . All of these methods could be deemed in-humane by one person or another but to each his own ! I personally use pinch collars to stop my dogs from jerking and pulling me around and a shocking bark collar only when necessary and I have been called cruel for using the pinch collar. They are all useful methods when used and applied properly! But I cannot see where a pinch collar is more cruel than a shock collar or a shocking bark collar. My dog doesn't yelp or squeal when the collar pinches him for pulling on the leash but some barking and e-collars will make a dog piss itself and yelp and squeal when they bark or when they are corrected . The pinch collar teaches the dog than when it pulls too much or jerks the leash the collar will apply an uncomfortable amount of pressure on its neck. I personally think the pinch collar is a good tool as are the other ones if they are used properly!
The goal here is to teach the dog to obey and to have discipline and respect!!!
You may have your own methods and ways of training your dogs but by no means will you catch me telling another man that he is wrong about the way he chooses to train his dog, nor will you find me physically or verbally correcting another mans dog unless he tells me to do so,to do such would be in my opinion breaking one of the golden rules on hunting with others and their dog(s). Correction should only come from the dogs owner/handler! I might suggest a method that works for me but ONLY if I am asked for my Opinion!! To say that one method is better than the other, well that is up to the handler and a matter of opinion ! You may not agree with my methods and I might not agree with yours, but again you don't have to ,after all its our own choice! To say that a person is wrong about their training methods is your opinion and everyone has their own opinion, but I would say that it is just a bit DISRESPECTFUL AND IGNORANTLY RUDE to tell a person they are wrong and to correct their dog(s)physically(with out the owners approval)!! You train your way and I train my way,End of discussion. I hope that this does not offend anyone as it was only written to explain some clear facts about training methods and choices that we make as dog handlers as well as hunting with others>I value all of my friendships with other houndsmen and each of us can learn something from the other if we choose to and if it is approached in a professional manner . Good luck and God bless all of you and may your hunting be good clean and fun !

Last edited by HighBawlinZeke on 03-11-2012 at 07:19 AM

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

E-collars are the biggest ripoff since puppy feed came out. Beyond basic yard work, ain't none of them worth a dam. I've owned and used them all, none can be counted on at even 1/2 mile. Two miles? Don't make me laugh. Sure you'll get some that work sometimes, under the right conditions IF you shave their skin bare, tighten the collar till it chokes the dog, say three hail marys. But reliability is a word that should never be wasted on e-collars.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Kimball,Michigan
Posts: 5

I agree nothing can beat good old one on one working with a dog and what did they do before e-collars ? If the dog was worth its salt and the handler did hi/her part then the dog should have discipline and obey,right? I personally like the hands on approach with the aid of a pinch collar and a check cord. Usually the barking is done for a reason and most of the time it is for getting your ATTENTION for one reason or another!! I am not a big fan of shocking the animal but I have used e-collars and I can see where it has its uses if it works and is done right but nothing can substitute good old fashioned one on one training and my dogs bond with me better for it!But that is my opinion and we all have are own. I respect your opinion and I try to keep an open mind and as alway I respect others as well. Thank you for your opinion . I hope to hear from others on this topic as well .
A GENERAL INTRODUCTION TO THE PRONG COLLAR
(This can be used for any dog)
The best Labrador Retriever is a well trained dog. Unfortunately, Labs usually don't enter a family already fully trained. One of the most frequent training complaints is the ability for a Lab to drag its owner down the block in less than 20 seconds. It is for that reason that Lab owners seek out methods of controlling their dogs while on walks or during training session. One such method is the use of the Prong collar.

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What is a Prong Collar?
A Prong collar (also called pinch collar) is a series of chain links with open ends turned towards the dog's neck so that, when the collar is tightened, it pinches the naturally loose skin around the dog's neck. When properly adjusted and used, it startles the dog and gives a sharp correction, but it is very difficult if not impossible to actually puncture the skin. And while it looks painful, it's actually less harmful to the dog than a slip or choke collar. Opponents argue that pain is never a good default way in which to train animals. Some dogs are nearly oblivious to leash corrections of any kind, but the prong collar might make such dogs pay more attention than milder collar types. The advantage of the prong collar over the choke collar is that the circumference is limited so that it is impossible to compress the animal's throat. Another advantage is that any pressure on the dog's neck is spread out over a larger area than with most buckle collars, and with all choke chains.
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Study of Prong Collars in Germany
(Information about study taken from an Anne Marie Silverton Seminar)

•100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.
•The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.
•Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.
•Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.

Type of Prong Collars

Swivel - prevents chain from getting twisted and owner must release dog by manually separating the links of the collar.

Quick Release - has a swivel to prevent chain from getting twisted and comes with a snap or special link to quickly release dog.




When should a Prong Collar be used?

A Prong collar should be used when milder training collars have not worked and your Lab is still not listening to commands. These other training collars include the flat collar, martingale collar, halter collar, or harness. Each of these training collars is less forceful and may be suitable for most owners and their Labs. For the most stubborn puller or for those Labs that have "selective hearing" when giving commands, the Prong collar can be very useful. Please use the mildest collar that gives you the results you want before trying a Prong collar.


Who should use a Prong Collar?

Any dog owner that has a stubborn Lab that need a more forceful training method. Only adults should use this type of training collar as there are some rules that a child may have difficultly following. Training must remain consistent and the alpha individual in the family should be the one to use this training method.

Please note: The pup should be at least 6 months in age before using a Prong collar for training due to development growth and age. This should not be used on young puppies.


Correct Use of a Prong Collar

Most people are misguided in the use of the Prong collar and how it should be worn. A majority of owners will secure the Prong collar loosely under the flat collar of the dog and believe this is the best fitting. Unfortunately, they are very wrong and can cause serious tracheal and neck problems for their Labs. Here are the facts:

•Prong collars are ordered by weight - Extra Heavy; Heavy; Light; etc. They all come in a standard length which is adjusted to fit the neck of the dog by removing or adding links to the collar.
•Prong collars are meant to be put on and taken off before and after daily training sessions. They should never be left on the Lab all the time. That is what the flat collar is meant for.
•A snug fit is mandatory! Enough links need to be removed so that the collar fits snug.
•Positioning of the Prong collar is crucial. The collar should sit right behind the ears and up under the jaw. Not down at the shoulders.
•Rings on the Prong collar should be positioned ideally for training. For most, the rings (that you attach your leash to) should be towards the top right of the Lab's neck as to allow the trainer to be standing to the Lab's right for training.
•Links should always remain under the dog's chin for more effective training.
•Attach the leash to the dead-ring for normal dog training. The dead-ring is when the trainer attaches the leash to both the swivel ring and the stationary ring. This will allow the Prong collar to remain the same size when training and provide less force.
•Attach leash to the live-ring for more stubborn dogs. The live ring is the swivel ring alone and allows the Prong collar to tighten further on the Lab when training. Do not use the live-ring method of training unless you have first tried the dead-ring method.
•The Prong collar should be placed on the Lab 20 minutes before training and it should be removed 20 minutes after the training has been completed. This will allow the Lab to become accustomed to the collar and not directly link the correction during the training with the collar.

Animal Cruelty

The Prong collar itself is not a cruel device to use on any dog, so long as it is used properly during training. As with anything, there are opportunities for any training method to be used in a cruel and inhumane fashion. Prong collars should never be used for punishment after the Lab has done something wrong. The collar should only be worn when the owner is actively training the Lab. If left on, the collar can hurt the Lab if it were to become tangled or caught on something. Prong collars are used solely for correction during training and should not be used in any other way. If you suspect someone of purposefully using the Prong collar to hurt their dog, please contact your local officials immediately.




Just because an owner chooses to use a Prong collar does not mean he or she has a bad dog. Both of our lovable Labs use the collar during their daily walks, as they tend to pull hard, and it is used during our more rigorous training sessions. When used properly, the Prong collar can make even the most energetic and stubborn Lab become well mannered and easy to handle.

Last edited by HighBawlinZeke on 03-11-2012 at 07:40 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

To each their own ... is how I treat other trainer's methods. There is only one way I don't think benefits dogs or hunters, but I will not get into that on a public forum.

Personally, I read everything I can on dog training. It doesn't matter if its gun dogs, retrievers, or what ever. I whole heartedly believe personal handling is a must, but I also believe the e-collars are very effective when used properly. That means when a dog has been conditioned properly to them. Also, I will say if you are going to loose your temper while using e-collars then don't use them. Ninety eight times out of 100, if I use an e-collar, I am using it on a level that the dog does not visibily react to.

I simply use an e-collar to remind a dog that I am still there. That being said i run an e-collar on all dogs that I am training 100% of the time during training excercises. That doesn't mean I use it very much. In fact, as stated earlier, the more yard work you do the less follow-up work is needed. I often go several months without using the e-collar after the basics have been covered.

Again, if it works for you, I say good for you. If I ask ya any questions it will be to evaluate if I should change something I do.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

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