Registered: Sep 2003
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3 dog cast which dont matter. I strike for 100 and tree for 125 and dog B trees for 75 and 75, and it is a circle den. Cut back to dog trailing holding 50. Strike for 25 a peice and I get 125 tree and dog B gets 75. Circled again. At this time we cut back with 1hr and a few minutes gone in hunt. I get another 125 tree before hunt with a coon to win cast. Do I get 25 strike +, or do I strike in for 100 since one hour has elapsed and dog C is still on her original strike??

I was thinking I moved to 100 but others on the cast thought I went bonkers!

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If dog C had been holding the strike for 1 hour then yes you move up. But you would have to know when on the clock that dog struck in. It’s easy if its right off the chain but if not then it gets a little more complicated.

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Yes Chris you should of struck for 100. Rule 7 states"all strike points will be open to other dogs after one hour of hunt time has elapsed." It has nothing to do with what time the other dog struck... The rules used to say holding first or second strike and after two coons or one hour...that was changed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
Yes Chris you should of struck for 100. Rule 7 states"all strike points will be open to other dogs after one hour of hunt time has elapsed." It has nothing to do with what time the other dog struck... The rules used to say holding first or second strike and after two coons or one hour...that was changed.

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So after a hour.. I can strike in for a 100 regardless? I think NOT!

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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
So after a hour.. I can strike in for a 100 regardless? I think NOT!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
Yes Chris you should of struck for 100. Rule 7 states"all strike points will be open to other dogs after one hour of hunt time has elapsed." It has nothing to do with what time the other dog struck... The rules used to say holding first or second strike and after two coons or one hour...that was changed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Joey
Thats what it sounds like Clay is saying.

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READ the non working dog rule! It is clearly written. Dont shoot the messenger. Remember it is a non working dogs rule. This means that the dog is not working as part of the cast! Chris clearly stated that two of the dogs had struck and treed and the third dog was out trailing. This qualifies as a non working dog. Once the hour has past rule 7 comes into affect. READ IT!!!!! In case you dont have a rul book I put it in quotes above!!!

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Please read the scenario!! You two are adding all kinds of yadayada crap into the scanario. A dog striking at 59 59 or blah blah blah doesnt fit the nonworking dog scenario. Dont add what ifs and could ofs....just read the question!!!

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Here is the rule in it's entirety "IF DOG IS NOT WORKING AS PART OF CAST, ALL STRIKE POSITIONS WILL BE OPEN TO OTHER DOGS AFTER ONE HOUR OF HUNTING TIME HAS ELAPSED." That's what the rule says. To me this means from when the dogs are released time starts. But I've been wrong before.

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I'm not sure if Clay is right or not but he just might be. The 2nd edition Advisor book came out before this rule was revised so it is no help. Here is the rule as written.

7. Non-Working Dog.
If dog is not working as part of cast, all strike positions will be open to other dogs after one hour of hunting time has elapsed.

How do they define dog not working as part of cast? What is that? I have no idea what UKC means by that. But I see no mention of being struck in or strike points on the card. So I think Clay may be right.
This rule confirms my feeling that no one should drink and make rules at the same time.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
Please read the scenario!! You two are adding all kinds of yadayada crap into the scanario. A dog striking at 59 59 or blah blah blah doesnt fit the nonworking dog scenario. Dont add what ifs and could ofs....just read the question!!!

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The rule is worded poorly. If you read it and apply it literally then yes clay would be correct. I don’t think that is how it was intended to be used. If it is then as it is written any dog struck in the first hour of hunt time and is still holding that strike can be struck in over after the first hour. Does that sound correct? I don’t think that is how they intended for it to be read. However UKC has done stranger things.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Joey
The rule is worded poorly. If you read it and apply it literally then yes clay would be correct. I don’t think that is how it was intended to be used. If it is then as it is written any dog struck in the first hour of hunt time and is still holding that strike can be struck in over after the first hour. Does that sound correct? I don’t think that is how they intended for it to be read. However UKC has done stranger things.

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So what if all dogs don't strike for 40 min. Then 2 split tree. Score trees for 10 min each. 3rd dog has been struck for a 100 for 20 whole min. Now when we turn that last dog off its tree. The hour is up. It can strike for a hundred? This has nothing to do with first question. This is a new question.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Joey
The rule is worded poorly..

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
I agree that it is written "poorly" However I am a rule junky. I read them forward, backwards, inside, outside and every other way possible. I judge every major event that I attend around this country and the UKC World finals. I am pretty well up on them as written. That Dont mean that I agree with them or cant be wrong sometimes. I just know how they are written. Secondly I didnt write them I only enforce them.
As far as being "ugly" and looking my previous post and " not playing well with others.." You dont know a thing about me so dont pretend to judge me. I have hundreds of friends in this business all over this country. CALL ME PERSONALLY if you want to discuss something. I am under constand scrutiny on this board for my conduct. I am not going to let you goat me into a peeing contest. My number is at the bottom of this post!

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Last edited by on 10-30-2011 at 11:30 PM

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is that the non working dog's track from the time it was struck determine when the hour is up. To be technical, it would take another stop watch. Previously, I was under the interpretation that the hour would start when the treed dogs were released.

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Last edited by Tim MACHA on 10-31-2011 at 12:11 AM

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so what dog gets the benfit,the 2 circle trees are the
1 running the coon the right way

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Poorly worded for sure. a literal interpretation of the rule as written makes no sense at all so until UKC. sees fit to clarify the wording i will depend on common sense and agree with JOEY because i believe the intent of the rule is to open strike points back up when a dog has held strike points for 1 hour without gettin treed. If im wrong it wont be a first.

An example would be when a dog is struck in and then goes MIA. for the rest of the hunt while the others contine to tree coon and keep the 8 broke.

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Last edited by john Duemmer on 10-31-2011 at 12:15 AM

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No where does it say in the rule, nor has it ever said, that you were required to keep seperate times on the individual dogs. The one hour starts when the dogs are turned looseand the one hour is up when you have used one hour of huntiing time. If that dog is out trackingv and not working with the other dogs on the cast for that one hour then all strike points are open. There was an incident at the world finals a couple years ago that broought the old rule under scrutiny. That is where the change came about. You canbelieve whateveryou want. I will judge it by the rule.If you judge you do it your way. Somewhere along the line we will meet andone of us will filie a formal complaint and follow the procedure to get it intrepreted.

PS
Seeker above is a UKC Field Rep. I would certainly believe him if I were you ;-)

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Let me throw another wrench in........

If a dog trees a coon or two , off by himself without getting with the other dogs at any time , considered to be working as " part of cast " ?
Or is he considered a "non-working" dog?

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I was at semifinals back in 95 when on Saturday night I was holding 100 strike and a dog with 25 strike made a circle tree at the 1 hr mark. After that he went on and treed a coon and won with +150. He put a ? that he was supossed to be moved to 100 which would give him +225.

He won the ? by a panel of field reps and that difference got him in the top 20 of that Zone.
River Bend Yo Yo was that dog.

I know that was a long time ago, but after last night it got me thinking about it. I kept my +150 last night and still had enough to win NTCH but was just wondering.

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Was removing the 2 coon rule. That's way easier to judge than an hour on strike for each hound...

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