Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 13

my young dog has started trailing hides and trees. i finally caught a live coon and was wondering if it was wise to let him fight it, for experience. he is 18 months, a late starter, my fault. he is around 70 lbs.

i was wanting to reward him by letting him play with it but i wasn't sure. all new to me and still trying to learn.

i was going to release it and let him try and tree his first live coon but i wanted him to get a taste of the battle before it happens, under supervised conditions.

thanks in advance

apbtfever@yahoo.com

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Sandy Ridge NC
Posts: 3893

Don't think I would do it that way. If I were you I would take a bucket of water and pour on the coon. I would release in front of you hound and let him track it and hopefully tree it. If he trees it shoot it out to him. I would be worried about the coon putting a whipping on him and ruining him. Just my thoughts but he is your dog you can do it anyway you want. I hope everything works out for you.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Northeast Kansas
Posts: 1121

I agree with Blue Ice.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 59

I agree also, just a question...what kind of dog are ya using? I see that your link is for American Pitbull Terriers, you aren't using a pitbull are you?

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Sleepy Hollow Black & Tans

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Churchville, VA
Posts: 798

Yendawg;

Here is my opinion, for what it is worth. I would work your dog on the coon in a roll cage. If you do not have one, I would just use the cage trap you have him in. Let him bark at it and hopefully he will get excited enough to start trying to fight the coon through the cage. A bucket of water on the coon is good, as this will increase the scent put off. When he is really excited and trying to tear the cage up to get to the coon, start pulling it up a tree. Try to get some of the scent on the tree, even if you have to pour more water over the coon while it is up the tree as this will give your dog the scent on the tree. In my opinion, you do not want him treeing if there is no scent on the tree. A lot of young dogs have been ruined by owners putting them in treeing contest and such. A young dog could very easily become tree happy and just start treeing just because there is another dog treeing. Anyway, I would do this for a few days. After your hound has been worked and is treeing good on the caged coon, I would do what Blue Ice said. Pour a bucket of water over the coon, and turn him loose. There are several ways to do this. 1) Turn the coon loose in the woods with your dog seeing him leave the cage. More than likely the coon will go up the first tree it comes to. The upside to this is that you will see what tree it goes up, as well as your dog. The down side is that your dog will also see, and more than likely use his eyes rather than his nose. From what you had said, he was trailing drags, etc. I would use 2) Take the coon to a field atleast 100 yards from the woods, pour a bucket of water on him, and turn him loose heading towards the woods. Let your hound see him go. When the coon gets to the woods, turn your hound loose. Chances are good that your hound will use his sight and run to the last place he saw the coon, however, he will not have seen him go up and will be forced to use his nose. The down side to this way is you will probably not see where the coon went up, and my experience has been that one turned loose in a field will not usually go up the first tree, but will run a little ways. This can be good or bad, depending on your dogs ability to track a good hot, wet track. Regardless of which way you decide, pet him up good at the tree, get him really treeing hard, even if it takes you awhile, work with him there till he does. Then shoot the coon out to him. Personally, I would make sure the coon was dead when it hit the ground, atleast till your hound got some experience fighting a coon with some help from other dogs.

One more thing. Never, DO NOT, work your dog on the coon for periods that are long enough for him to get tired of it and loose interest. When you finish working with him on a coon, he should be just as eager to get it as he was when you first showed it to him, though he may be barked out a bit.

Hopefully you will get a lot more opinions on here. I would read all of them, as there is a lot one can learn from others experience.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 13

i am sorry, but i am using a pit bull. he does far better than i ever imagined. it is nothing like the registered events, he doesn't bawl on trail but wil bark when its treed.

he truely enjoys it and will do anything that you want of him. he is unbelievable. obedient as can be and just wants to please. i have no desire to hunt in any events, just a time out in the woods with the dog and i.

he has been trailing a hide and scent for over two months and is doing very well. for the last week or so he is trying to tear up the hide when i let him, instead of looking it over first. so i figured it was time for a live coon.

i know he is not a hound, which probably disappoints the majority of you but i still enjoy the sport and want to learn. the breed shouldn't matter, entirely. should it?

i don't have any quick intentions of getting a hound but it has crossed my mind. right now i enjoy working with my "killer" pit bull and watching him do all he can do to please.

the more info the better and thanks again. that all helps alot!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 59

I know alot of "pitbull" fanciers would shudder at the way you described your dog as a "Killer". Every day that goes by responsible breeders and owners do everything that they can to dispel the media frenzy surrounding this breed as dangerous or vicious. By teaching your PITBULL TERRIER to attack and kill other animals you are only perpetuating the myth that pitbulls are born killers.

It is true that COON HOUNDS do occasionally kill a coon, but they are COON HOUNDS, hence the name. I am not trying to come down on you or sound like a hypocrite but you have to realize the bad reputation this breed has and the first time it kills a neighbors cat or another dog you have just destroyed alot of peoples hard work in promoting the breed. I realize they are used for hogs, etc. I just don't think they have any place in this sport. And i firmly believe if you want the pitbull breed to remain legal to own in areas the attitude you have toward it being a "KILLER" should change. I am not an expert on Pit bulls but i did let my friend (who owns an Amstaff) read your post and let's just say he was disgusted.

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Sleepy Hollow Black & Tans

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 13

"killer' was used strictly as humor, for all the media and media people.

i have been a life long owner of the pit bull, almost 20 years. i defend the breed to the end, day in and day out. many people disregard me and my family because i own them.

you should not be so quick to judge.

i love the breed and try and find as many legal things to do with them to preserve the breed and the name they carry. weight pulling, showing, etc., etc.

my dogs are my life and come off the chain and out of the pen on many occasions other than hunting, showing, etc..., unlike many individuals, probably on this site.

ignorance and quick judgement lead to constant failure.

i came on here to learn about the sport.

preserving the breed is my ultimate goal and i think i am doing very well, thank you.

as for your am staff breeder friend, i am sorry he judges so quickly as well. being a bull owner you think he would be a little partial for my point of view, but to each his own.

i apologize for bringing up the breed, my goal was to learn about the sport regardless of the dog.

and i am not here to argue but to learn as much about coon hunting as i can.

thanks again, and nothing personal!!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Douglas, Georgia
Posts: 187

I know Yendawg from the bulldog boards. He`s seems to be a pretty good fellow. I knew he was being funny when he said "killer".
I have a male APBT that lives in the house and goes where ever I go. He will tree whatever. He is a combo dog. He`s real partial to squirrels and housecats. He will tree pretty good, probably a 50+ dog. Not bad for a bulldog.
APBT`s can be taught to do anything that most breeds of dogs can do, but I`ll stick to my hounds for coons.
You know I can remember a time when a bulldog crossed with a hound was called a cur dog and was good for whatever from treeing to ketching to guarding or whatever.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

Smithurst B&T's have a 1/4 Pit bull in their foundation and a pit cross can be the most loyal and the smartest dog you'll ever own. It wouldn't hurt most hounds to have a dash if so many people know that their hound will be scared of a coon at 17mo old !!!

I hate to hear that so many think a COONhound shouldn't even have to bark at a live coon.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Northeast Kansas
Posts: 1121

How does that pit bull do when you cut him loose at night?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6

I have nothing at all against the pit bull breed but why would you use a pit for coonhunting? My golden retreiver had a coon treed once when i was younger and i never used him!! A pits instinct is to kill a smaller animal, so u might as well just let him rip it up. I think what you are doing is a good way to make him mean.

I use to be a animal cruelty officer and I seen a lot of pits turn for no reason, I wouldn't be teaching it that. You need to get a "real coonhound" if you want to hunt. Besides in most states pits have to have a muzzle on and be on a leash at all times.....so how would you let him loose in the woods?

oh yeah, bulldogs and pit bulls are two different breeds.

Last edited by Amanda on 06-27-2003 at 01:33 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Salem,Missouri
Posts: 4917

yendawg i know of pit bulls being used as hog dogs and thats fine with me. so if you can get one to tree coon and you enjoy it then knock your self out and good luck.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Northeast Kansas
Posts: 1121

If you can get it going, I say go for it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 137

My 18 month old hound is starting out just like yours, slow. The other night while hunting the coon jumped out of the tree, with a little help from shaking vines, and my dog hit the coon and then backed off and went absolutlely bonkers. Then the other dog came over and they bayed him for a few seconds and then killed him. I did show her a caged coon before all of this happened and she treed the caged coon, so you might want to get your ound to do the same first.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 137

I'm sorry I guess I should have read further first before I replied, but what the hell are you using a pit bull for.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Douglas, Georgia
Posts: 187

Bulldogs to bulldog people are Apbt`s. Animal aggressiveness and human aggressiveness are two completely different things. How could catching a coon or hog make them turn on a person??

Thank you for explaining to us that the bulldog and the pit bull are two different breeds! There is no such thing as a pit bull!!!!! That is what people that don`t know one thing about them, calls them, such as the media.

In most states you don`t have to muzzle them. What do they teach animal cruelty officers, where you are from?????I don`t think it is about APBT`s.

Yes, I own one or two, so I know what I`m talking about. Actually I own 9, but I`ve just thinned down alot.

Not trying to start anything, just expressing my opinion on facts not hearsay.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Northeast Kansas
Posts: 1121

If this dog was a poodle there would be no discussion. But since it is the big bad pit bull...Look out! How many houndsmen have had a hound that will kill a coon on the ground if it catches it??? How many have hounds that if you let a coon out of the cage that the hound would flat tear it up??? How many have shot coon out alive for the dog to fight ???? No hands going up in the air? Yeah right! I had a Walker dog that became cross, maybe mouthing a coon turned her into a "killer". Who says a person has to use a "coon hound" to tree coon to be happy. I do not care if I am treeing with Flash, The Taco Bell Dog, or Spud Mckenzy, as long as they are getting the job done. If I used one of those dogs it would be my choice to do so. As far as the breeders being beside themselves because he used the word "killer"... give me a break! How about it is ok for a coon hound to kill a coon, because it is a COON HOUND...come on now. Who cares if this guy is using his Pit Bull as a coon dog. It is obvious he his doing it for his pleasure. Do you think that a Pit Bull is the only breed that will kill the neighbors cat? I doubt if a good old hound dog has ever done that. Crap my grandpa had a bird dog that killed every cat it came across. One more thing then I will step down from my soap box. I do not think it is right for somebody to come to look for advice on the board just to get blasted because he is using a dog that everybody thinks he should not. Like I said, if he was using a poodle everyone would say your wasting your time, but what ever floats your boat man.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 1256

yeah scott. i agree with you i never thought id see so many uptite coonhunters. i want to know who owns a coonhound with no terrier or bird dog breeding behind it. pit bull have a bad rep because of idiot owners- breeders- . guy comes here looking for advice and gets dumped on. thats not right. i dont think pitbulls are best choice for a coonhound either but i sure wouldnt bet that there arent some good ones. ive used cross breeds for bearhunting. lots of hog hunters using them. pete

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Lumpkin, Ga
Posts: 8757

American Pit Bull Terrier/"Pitbull" whatever!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 13

i truely apologize for stirring the pot.

this particular dog is the ideal dog. very dog friendly, very cat friendly, and a lousy watch dog.

the majority of the breed is not like him. he takes time and seems to make decisions. thats why i decided to try something new with him.

thanks for the defense and all the replys



by the way, should i change my approach on training or do the same as everyone said, before we got off course???

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 59

Sounds like alot of you guys are ok with it, and thats fine, I am just voicing my opinion like everyone else, never said i was right except for in my own mind.

If it works for you Yendawg, go for it. Prove me wrong. Maybe you are on to something. I guess it is better than training it to fight other dogs.

Good Luck and keep us posted on its progress. I would be interested in hearing what happens.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

yewndawg , do the same as you would a hound. Go to the woods and see what the dog can do ..then adjust his training. He may not need anything but hunted but you will have a hard time keeping him off of dillers and possum cuz they are easy prey and fun for a pit. good luck

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

If he can ever actually tree a coon.....THAT is something I would like to see

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hudson, Indiana
Posts: 998

I hear several of you guys saying that you don't care what kind of dog (color, breed) it is as long as it will tree a coon. I really find that hard to believe. If there really was a huge desire for the best of the best canine to tree coons, then there would be a specific breed other than hounds that people would be using to strictly tree coons. It just isn't so. Hounds have been bred specifically, and have been proven to be the best, for treeing coons. Sure guys have had shepherds, and labs, and maybe even pit bulls that can and will tree coons, but you don't see guys running out to buy these kinds of dogs to hunt with. I wouldn't buy a hound to use as a police dog, or to lead the blind, because they wouldn't be a good fit. I guess I don't understand the logic behind using a dog not bred for what you're trying to use it for.

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