Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

I am wondering how many kittens do your sows have on average in the heavy populated areas up there?Seams like here the most common number you see with a sow is 3.

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2009
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 280

up hear in nw. Ia. 3 to 6

__________________
Regans Blackland Black&Tans

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Average is 4, but I have seen as many as 6.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: indiana
Posts: 351

quote:

---

Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Average is 4, but I have seen as many as 6.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

Early on I would say 4-6...This time of year I would go with a solid 3.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Turtle Mountains, ND
Posts: 1023

2-3 kittens treed is typical this time of year.

I saw a litter of 6 on the road back in August.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Burlington, WI
Posts: 489

In SE Wi we see 4-6 kits

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

I dont know how many they start out with but by the time we see them out with the kits in the trees usually 3 and sometimes 4.

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2008
Location: n.e. ohio
Posts: 2038

ya i agree 3 -6 but mostly around 4

__________________
Brad Blakeman
NORTHERN LIGHTS ENGLISH


NITECH SILVERTONE REBEL YELL (never forgotten 1/3/10)
NORTHERN LIGHTS SHOOTER
NORTHERN LIGHTS SHIFTER
if it aint broke, fix it till it is...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

Now I see why you have a bigger population of coon up there. Wish I could get my hands on a few of your sows and sneek them down here.lol

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13413

quote:

---

Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Now I see why you have a bigger population of coon up there. Wish I could get my hands on a few of your sows and sneek them down here.lol

---

__________________
Swampmusic Kennel
Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
But Looking To The Future...

Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

quote:

---

Originally posted by HOBO
the main reason they have so many coons is food food and more food. Although I do wonder what they eat once all the crops have been gathered as they sure don't have enough woods to keep them in Acorns the rest of the year.

---

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: tekonsha mich
Posts: 2024

quote:

---

Originally posted by HOBO
the main reason they have so many coons is food food and more food. Although I do wonder what they eat once all the crops have been gathered as they sure don't have enough woods to keep them in Acorns the rest of the year.

---

__________________
if its there eventually it will look

Mark Warner

"HOME OF PREDAWN KENNELS"

http://www.tekonshathunder.homestead.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

quote:

---

Originally posted by warn
michigan has plenty of woods and there is lots of corn and beans that were missed by the combine or just went thru the seaves..

plus they love to hang around most farms and eat outta the feeders or silage bags not to mention all the natural food still out there til they go into their winters nap............

---

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Mason, Michigan
Posts: 3166

Average is probably 4 seen as many as 7. Pulled two litters of 7 out of attics this spring.

__________________
Shawn Wemple
Lost Creek Kennel
517-575-9662

Whitey Dogs ROCK!!!
I use and recommend Kelley's K-Lights.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 459

4 to 6 is what u see around here when they first come out in the spring thats north west indiana

__________________
D&T'S RED HOT ENGLISH KENNELS
OWNER & HANDLER DAVE WILSON
HOME OF
GRNITECH'D&T'S RED HOT RUSTY
D&T'S RED HOT BULLET WITH A UKC (2)2ND A 3RD & (2) 4 TH AND 4TH PLACE WIN AT 2010 ENGLISH DAYS
D&T'S RED HOT Hammering Hank

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

I have to agree with Shawn. Average of with the largestI have ever seen was8.

It its not all about an abundance of feed..... Out timber is bigger trees and IBM most places older hardwood trees. That means more denning areas. The combination off more feed and more den sites is the real secret to a large populaton.

Having a bunch of high quality feed at the time that the cubs are weaned is also very beneficial to a high survival rate of the young.

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: The driftless area
Posts: 1429

Bergmans rule explains the larger critters in the north aposed to their southern kin folk.

Litters depend on the availability of feed & denning sites. 4-6 pretty much is the rule here.

__________________
"Quality not Quantity & hunt what you breed"~"IF you don't, please don't breed what you "DON'T" hunt" ~"If their not good enough for you they sure as tootin ain't good 'nuff for us" ~

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oak Ridge
I have to agree with Shawn. Average of with the largestI have ever seen was8.

It its not all about an abundance of feed..... Out timber is bigger trees and IBM most places older hardwood trees. That means more denning areas. The combination off more feed and more den sites is the real secret to a large populaton.

Having a bunch of high quality feed at the time that the cubs are weaned is also very beneficial to a high survival rate of the young.

---

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3314

The biggest factor limiting litter size is early spring nutrition. The coons up north still have crops in the fields and night crawlers. Our crops are disced in and are gone by early winter and we don't have night crawlers. Those worms are high protien and are very abundant. A well fed sow will produce more kittens and can support them better.

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
The biggest factor limiting litter size is early spring nutrition. The coons up north still have crops in the fields and night crawlers. Our crops are disced in and are gone by early winter and we don't have night crawlers. Those worms are high protien and are very abundant. A well fed sow will produce more kittens and can support them better.

---

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Last edited by Okie Dawg on 11-03-2010 at 02:11 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Grady,

Having hunted in Oklahoma, I can tell you from personal experience that your terrain (size and type of timber) and selection of feed is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what I look at every day.

I can easily take you and show you some trees that are 175 foot tall, and about 150 years old. They will easily be 5 feet in diameter at the base of the tree.....

I can take you to the 12 acres of timber across the road from my house, and show you not fewer that 20 den trees that I know of...there is a creek (actually a drainage ditch) that flows through it so there is constant water....there are crops planted on three sides of it as well. The trees consist of sugar maple, wild cherry (an important feed source for our coon), about a million mulberry trees surrounding the patch, and along the fence rows leading to and from the woods. (an even more important food source in early spring when the cubs are being weaned), poplar, sycamore (nearly 100% of these trees over 25 years old are hollow and serve as den trees) with some white and red oak trees scattered in amongst the hickory.....

See, it's not just about having corn fields here.....in reality, we have food available to the coon nearly year around. Our coon build up a layer of fat that is at this time of year as much as 2 to 3 inches thick. Early in the year (feb/march) the coon start feeding on lost grain in the fields...then move to night crawlers and early berries (did I mention that we have raspberry patches that cover several acres in some places?) Shortly after that, the mulberries provide a high calorie feast for the month of may and part of June? Between the mulberries and corn is the wild cherry tree...these provide another high calorie fest until the field corn turn to "milk" stage....like a sweet corn. About that time, the wheat fields start ripening, and yes..coon like wheat as well. We don't have much of that really in this area, but oats are another important feedstuff.

By the time the corn is hardening, the cubs are weaned....they stay in family groups and often stay in the den with the family.....but continue to grow....

The bottom line is that we have a LOT of LARGE quality denning sites. We don't have paper mills that will be happy to chip the hollow trees for pulp...we have hardwood production, which means that the hollow trees get to stand and remain as denning sites. Many times when timber is harvested, most of the trees in a tract will be cut, with ONLY the dens that remain standing. In the end, it is late winter, when it gets really cold that we start seeing attrition due to lack of den sites....most of our cubs make it to about a year old at LEAST before they see hard times.....

Trust me...build large nesting boxes, and make sure that there is water and feed available, and you will see an increase in coon population over a two year period!

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Okie,

Years ago I remember hunters in southern states were advertising for live northern coons. While many northern coon did make it down south, it only took one or 2 generations for them to loose their size.

The difference in body size has to do with the manner that a larger body size holds heat better in extreme cold temperatures than a smaller body size. You can see this by winter kill of animals up here. Nine times out of ten, it isn't the large heavy ones that die during the winter, but the small young ones.

You may not want to accept that colder climates means larger body sizes but it is a well accepted theory in scienitific communities.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5587

Joe
That sounds really pretty and I would love to hunt in it just once in my life.
I take it you must had been in eastern Okla. Oklahoma is as differant as night and day from east to west. I live in the west. We don't have any woods taken for papermills or anything else in this part of Okla. It is flat crop land with a lot of creeks and trees along the creeks. There are plenty of hollows not being used but up till about 4-5 years ago we didn't grow anything but wheat and after it was cut the ground was worked and stayed bare till next planting. So the coon ran out of berries in the winter but now they have crops all summer and the berries stay a lot longer. They have corn, millow, cattle cubes, liqued feed, craw dads, mulberries, and a lot of other things to eat and our winters arent bad here so they are active all year.
I have noticed they are putting on a lot more waight than they use to. But we haven't had the food source long. The farmers haven't been doing the no till long. I think we had some of our coon get killed with bad corn and distemper this year. The government made the farmers turn the bad corn under but they let it stay in the field for a long time. Then when they did there was still a lot on top.
We don't have nothing like your part of the country though.

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged