Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 233

So a fellow coondogger and I were recently having a conversation about judging. First of all we are from Eastern Iowa where the coon are thick and the dogs are plentiful. It was brought to my attention that judges are normally the ones doing all the winning. Obviously they do most of the winning because they have the better dog. I understand that they do have some pull with having the scorecard and pencil in there hand, but the better dog should win no matter what. Anyways, I think the biggest advantage for judges in smaller hunts and RQE's is that they do not have to draw out with other judges. This separates all the good dogs from each other. Its rare that a judge is leading around a crapeater. It a DISTINCT advantage to being a judge for that very reason, you dont have to draw out with the best!!! I no **** well the judges realize this too. Just wondering what everyone elses take on this was??? Not on here crying, just wondering if anyone else ever thinks about this?? Im just gonna start writing judge on the back of my slip so I know I wont be drawing out with the good dogs/handlers. So whats your take on this??

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13416

The person in the cast with the biggest advantage most of the time is the guide. I don't think a judge has an advantage over the rest of the cast,if anything he's at a little bit of a disadvantage. Why you ask? Because he not only has to listen for his dog but the rest of the cast also,then he has to keep up with the times and everything else that goes into making a cast a good cast.

__________________
Swampmusic Kennel
Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
But Looking To The Future...

Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Cleveland, Tx
Posts: 308

i judge from time to time and am hauling around a "crapeater"
when a judge is selected it is because they have the best uderstanding of the rules, or that is how it is supposed to be anyways.

__________________
Allen Wells
WWW.EASTFORKHUNTINGSUPPLIES.COM
da.wells@yahoo.com
832-492-3712

Proud Member Of The Cleveland Coon Hunters Association.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

LOL, now see no one has ever explained that to me and my potlicking biscuit eaters. I have actually got minused points before because I m busy with my judging responsibilities.

Honestly, I find judging a hinderance, but I will always do it when I am asked.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 233

You guys obviously are not understanding my post, reread it before you post again.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location: Kentucky Wildcat Country
Posts: 4600

quote:

---

Originally posted by HOBO
The person in the cast with the biggest advantage most of the time is the guide. I don't think a judge has an advantage over the rest of the cast,if anything he's at a little bit of a disadvantage. Why you ask? Because he not only has to listen for his dog but the rest of the cast also,then he has to keep up with the times and everything else that goes into making a cast a good cast.

---

__________________
Perry Metcalf.. Go Big Blue !

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

I get asked to judge alot and don't recall EVER asking to judge. I'm happy as heck if they make someone else the judge, as along as they can do a somewhat adequate job.

I'm glad to find out now what a "big advantage" I've had, roflmao.

If you're not asked to judge you might look at yourself in the mirror and ask why? There must be a reason...

__________________

Click here to visit The B&T Coonhunters Message Forum for news, views, open discussion, ads, and event winners in the B&T Breed (Registration, with your full name, required)

Click here to see my Dog List

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Coldwater MS
Posts: 1328

quote:

---

Originally posted by HOBO
The person in the cast with the biggest advantage most of the time is the guide. I don't think a judge has an advantage over the rest of the cast,if anything he's at a little bit of a disadvantage. Why you ask? Because he not only has to listen for his dog but the rest of the cast also,then he has to keep up with the times and everything else that goes into making a cast a good cast.

---

__________________
DILLER DOGS

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location: Sullivan IL.
Posts: 3060

The judge is by fare at a big dissavantage. ( but the judge is NOT really the judge in ukc,he is the time keeper, score keeper and rule interpiter? but the cast is the judge). I do know what you are saying I guide and judge at opur local club and have for years. I went to the IL. ST. Gov. cup a few years back and drew out with a friend from our club,got talkings about never hunting together at the hunt, I bet it been 5years sence we drew out against each other and its becouse we both guide and judge, and yes most of the time it is eather his cast or mine.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

I also beleive that being the judge puts you at a disadvantage because of the many things you have to keep up with while judging.

Being the guide DOES give you an advantage because your dog knows the area and where to look for a coon. You also know where the dogs are most likely to go and where they are most likely to tree. I've hunted with guides who knew which limb the coon would be on.

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 2209

mark, ya better go back and read allen's write up awhile back about judging and the cast really being the judge :} i think he wrote it different than that.. take care.. seth

__________________
I Use and Sell Dakota Lights
Seth Isch 260-701-2137
I MAY HAVE A NICE HOUND FOR SALE FROM TIME TO TIME.

覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧
GRNTCH PKC CH BIG HOLLOW AWESOME LEXUS
GRNTCH G2担 LIGHTFOOTED ANGEL
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧
GrNtCh Charley 7 HOF
GrNtCh Red Ruby Hardtime Pearl HOF
GrNtCh Red Ruby Suzie HOF
GrNtCh Red Ruby Hardtime Hoss
GrNtCh Red Ruby Ringo

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: columbia,mo.
Posts: 1256

The cast is most of the time the judge. Not always but most of the time. If you as a handler don't like the judges call what do you do? You call for a vote, you don't like that answer you ? it on the card. How does that not give the power more so to the cast than the judge his self.

As far as the judge being the lucky one you must not have to do it much. The one and only reason I want to judge is so you don't have to listen to a bunch of bickering. Keeping the card in good shape, running the clock, writing stuff down, and listening to hounds and handlers does not give you an advantage to hear and call your dog better. I have been beat both ways and will again but yes for the most part I would rather have the card most of the time unless whoever gets it has a back bone and keeps things running smoothly.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1454

quote:

---

Originally posted by HOBO
The person in the cast with the biggest advantage most of the time is the guide. I don't think a judge has an advantage over the rest of the cast,if anything he's at a little bit of a disadvantage. Why you ask? Because he not only has to listen for his dog but the rest of the cast also,then he has to keep up with the times and everything else that goes into making a cast a good cast.

---

__________________
Travis Duvall owned and operated

NTCH DUVALL'S BIG MONEY SLIDDER










Home of those with drive!
Speak the truth it will set you free.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark V.
The judge is by fare at a big dissavantage. ( but the judge is NOT really the judge in ukc,he is the time keeper, score keeper and rule interpiter? but the cast is the judge). I do know what you are saying I guide and judge at opur local club and have for years. I went to the IL. ST. Gov. cup a few years back and drew out with a friend from our club,got talkings about never hunting together at the hunt, I bet it been 5years sence we drew out against each other and its becouse we both guide and judge, and yes most of the time it is eather his cast or mine.

---

__________________
OAKS POINT KENNELS

HOME OF

PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

CH 'PR' CHERRY CREEK XBOX 2016 Treeing Walker Days King of Show

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

In the last 5 months, I've been fortunate to not be assigned the judging duties in most of my casts. In turn, I've won the majority of the casts I haven't judged. I made my dog a Nite Ch in 2 registries and only carried the card on 1 of those wins and it was a 1 hour *KC event.

I would completely disagree that judging is any sort of advantage. I'd rather not judge, but I'd rather not have some schmuck doing it either.

I feel judging is a big responsibility and anyone doing the duty as it should be is going to cost they're dog some wins because they are putting judging duties before handling.

Not all judges are packing the better dogs. Many times UKC MOH select certain handlers as judges simply because they are club members or guiding. Some folks take offense if they are a member and a guide but not good enough to judge. It shouldn't be that way but in many cases, it is.

The only ones I worry about is the handler that is packing a mediocre dog, and only hunts the events at his home club where he has selected his buddy as the MOH and he's guiding and judging. When those guys consistently bring in the wins at home and can't win a lick when they venture to another club, then it is obvious they are probably not up to par.

As far as judges and they're dogs not having compete against each other, there isn't much you can do about that. A couple reasons why it may appear that way is because those guys are the most competent and best available judges, in turn they know what type of dog it takes to win so naturally they aren't going to show up hunting a junk dog. Because they put the time in the woods, they might be the best available guide too. Now why would you want to assign judging and guiding duties to someone less competent?

When the club has enough local participation that are up to par on guiding and judging duties, then we can worry about making sure it gets mixed up from time to time. But this isn't a problem I see very often at a regular UKC hunt.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

And bubba,

If I'm a MOH at an event and see you've identified yourself as a judge on the back of the entry slip, I'm going to throw it in the trash and request you write up another one.

Entry slips are not supposed to be marked to identify them as judges or guides or splits. I see it all the time, but it isn't right.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2008
Location: southcentral arkansas
Posts: 1571

quote:

---

Originally posted by HOBO
The person in the cast with the biggest advantage most of the time is the guide. I don't think a judge has an advantage over the rest of the cast,if anything he's at a little bit of a disadvantage. Why you ask? Because he not only has to listen for his dog but the rest of the cast also,then he has to keep up with the times and everything else that goes into making a cast a good cast.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: columbia,mo.
Posts: 1256

Maybe I'm just not real smart but I have been beaten on my own corn feeders as I was packing the card. If I'm hunting feeders, we usually turn loose right close to them and point the dogs at them. How much advantage does that gain other than there is a hot coon close by usually? The only way judging is an advantage is you can start the 8 faster when the dogs shut up or the 2 when they shut up on the tree. Usually starting it on my dog so there I go beating myself again.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: IOWA
Posts: 1385

Honest Judge = Disadvantage
Crooked Judge = Advantage

__________________
"IOWEGIAN SPORTING DOGS - HOME OF FINE HUNTING DOGS SINCE 1989"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jay Chadwick
Honest Judge = Disadvantage
Crooked Judge = Advantage

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 233

Come on guys, I thought I stated it pretty clearly what Im trying to say. It has nothing to do with writing down scores or having to start the watch. What I am trying to say is that judges are at an advantage for not having to draw out with other judges dogs. Say you regularly attend at a local club. You have the same 4 judges most nights. They all have good dogs, these guys never have to draw out with each other!!!! This is what I am getting at guys.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 233

And my solution to this is very simple. Split the guides up and draw out your casts. Then you can pick who is going to judge the casts.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: IOWA
Posts: 1385

which club are you a member of?

__________________
"IOWEGIAN SPORTING DOGS - HOME OF FINE HUNTING DOGS SINCE 1989"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

I can see where trying to keep up with everything could be dis advantageous. But a hunting guide? Come on! That's an undeniable advatage particularly for bucket hunters. Tell me true are you going to put a bucket where any dog with decent sence would be hunting?

I am a nonhunting guide. I have no buckets. I take pleasure in stopping the truck 100 yards before I get to where a coon ought to have been. I could stop 20 yards before I get there but alot of dogs have been trained to hunt on dumps. I figure in 100 yards they have done hit high gear and headed for parts unknown when they cross that track. Sometimes I take them to the edge of a field( which is a chufas patch) with a ditch on the edge, I point, they sicum, I know full well in twenty feet across that ditch there is a bushhog path heading across a pine ridge that most of them are going to streatch out on . If the dog had regular sence he would know better than be running a ridge when there are bays to the left and right. Hey, but I'm just a guide and, believe me, I have been guided to a whole lot worse places than what I'm talkn about. I guess you can tell I don't care much for a racehorse that don't have a home turn in them. But I don't have anything to gain or loose. I can only imagine that a ten year old settled dog would have a pretty good chance whem I'm guiding.

On second thought , I might have something there with that racehorse analogy. Imagine sicin 4 racehorses down a twenty yard track past the start line and the first one to cover a mile, excuse me, (5 furlongs) is the winner no matter where he goes. What a joke! Oh, once again excuse non-cracker me, NASCAR and they pass the start line never to be seen again untill you read about it in the news papers. LOL

Last edited by l.lyle on 08-17-2010 at 06:29 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

Our club chooses judges based on experience, along with reputation for being honest & knowlegable. We ask at sign up if hunters can guide or judge. Often we have more volunteers for judging than we need. Guides are critical & as local hunting places disappear, finding guides becomes a major concern. Often we have casts with more than one person qualified & experienced as a judge. Judging is a big responsibility because it requires not only knowing the rules, but the ability to keep track of ALL the dogs in the cast. Just because someone is qualified to judge doesn't mean his/her dog is the best on the cast. IDEALLY, hunt results are 'the luck of the draw" and the integrity of the judge along with that of ALL cast members.

__________________
SKY
___________________
Author of the novel "Follow Jennifer"

Last edited by skyblu on 08-17-2010 at 01:39 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged