Registered: Sep 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 312

4 dog cast all dogs struck in. The dogs are flying twards us waiting on the road. The coon attempts to cross in front of us but decides different. Guess he didnt like the truck high beams. All 4 dogs slam the tree. Here is the odd part. When we arrive to a 7 foot christmas tree the coon is jerked out of the tree by one of the dogs. But only 1 guy saw it. The rest of us just see a coon gettin stretched on the ground. How do you score it? We scored it as cought on the ground, because only one of us saw it in the tree before it was on the ground. Think it was the rite call? Yes i know they had him up but didnt get to see that. I guess thats the breaks.

__________________
Bill Endress

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Edgewater , fl
Posts: 216

since dogs were not handled yet,its scored as coon caught on ground.just a bad break

__________________
Present
NITECH CH INDIAN RIVER BLACK PEARL
CH INDIAN RIVER EASY MONEY

PAST
PKC STATE CHAMPION NITECH CH ONCE IN A BLUE MOON JUNE
2014 PKC NATIONAL FEMALE LEADER GRNTCH GOLD CH INDIAN RIVER CREAM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

Dogs tree points are deleted and the strike points are plus because the dogs reached the coon and the coon was "CAUGHT". Doesn't make any difference if the coon was seen in the tree before the dogs were handled.

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2008
Location: north cental,mo.
Posts: 605

the guy that saw the coon in the tree shouldn't of been looking at the tree unless all dogs were handled and shine time started. He could of been scratched for saying he saw the coon in the tree before dogs were handled

__________________
Al Brobst
po box 71
Wheeling,Mo 64688
Home of:
Red Eagle Chief

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 3550

quote:

---

Originally posted by blueboy90
since dogs were not handled yet,its scored as coon caught on ground.just a bad break

---

__________________
MANIAC MY NAME HUNTING MY GAME!!
MANIAC BLOOD ROCKS!! WHERE THE TRACK POWER IS!!

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0522.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/1619.jpg

IF YOU WANT TO PACK HUNT
BUY YOU A PAIR BEAGLES!


GR NITE CH. HARWOODMANIAC JR 4 # 2 TOP 100 UKC WORLD 2013 OWNER JAY HYDE & DAVID DEPEW




GRNITE CH Hoghill Harwood Kasper
owners Hyde Warlick Leatherman
Qualified for 2013 world Hhunt
OWNER HYDE & WARLICK LEATHERMAN. MY PH 574 306 8438
K-LIGHTS ph.936 767 4965
http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0734.jpg

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

quote:

---

Originally posted by cbcoonskinner
the guy that saw the coon in the tree shouldn't of been looking at the tree unless all dogs were handled and shine time started. He could of been scratched for saying he saw the coon in the tree before dogs were handled

---

__________________
OFFICIAL FIELD TESTER FOR LEMS LIGHTS

Good people do not need laws to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws (Plato)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 3550

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim MACHA
Everyone can jump on me again, but just suppose that guy was handling his dog when his dog grabbed the coon. He was not shining the tree, just the mouth of the dog that just happened to be grabbing a skiddish coon coming down the tree. Don't see how he could be scratched for that. JMHO

---

__________________
MANIAC MY NAME HUNTING MY GAME!!
MANIAC BLOOD ROCKS!! WHERE THE TRACK POWER IS!!

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0522.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/1619.jpg

IF YOU WANT TO PACK HUNT
BUY YOU A PAIR BEAGLES!


GR NITE CH. HARWOODMANIAC JR 4 # 2 TOP 100 UKC WORLD 2013 OWNER JAY HYDE & DAVID DEPEW




GRNITE CH Hoghill Harwood Kasper
owners Hyde Warlick Leatherman
Qualified for 2013 world Hhunt
OWNER HYDE & WARLICK LEATHERMAN. MY PH 574 306 8438
K-LIGHTS ph.936 767 4965
http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0734.jpg

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Remember too scratched for shining means just that SHINING THE TREE.

It doesn't mean accidentally seeing something in the tree or the light beam hitting the tree. It means shining the tree. Big difference.

Plenty of times you can see eyes in the tree goin in without shinin the tree.

The rule is not meant to scratch someone cause their light beam went across the tree walkin in. It is meant to scratch someone trying to get extra shine time/unfair advantage. There is a difference.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Can you even scratch someone for shining outside the shinetime? What rule do you use? I know you cannot score a coon outside of shinetime but where does it say you can't have a light in the tree?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 3550

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Can you even scratch someone for shining outside the shinetime? What rule do you use? I know you cannot score a coon outside of shinetime but where does it say you can't have a light in the tree?

---

__________________
MANIAC MY NAME HUNTING MY GAME!!
MANIAC BLOOD ROCKS!! WHERE THE TRACK POWER IS!!

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0522.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/1619.jpg

IF YOU WANT TO PACK HUNT
BUY YOU A PAIR BEAGLES!


GR NITE CH. HARWOODMANIAC JR 4 # 2 TOP 100 UKC WORLD 2013 OWNER JAY HYDE & DAVID DEPEW




GRNITE CH Hoghill Harwood Kasper
owners Hyde Warlick Leatherman
Qualified for 2013 world Hhunt
OWNER HYDE & WARLICK LEATHERMAN. MY PH 574 306 8438
K-LIGHTS ph.936 767 4965
http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0734.jpg

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Where does it say you are scratched if your light goes up before shinetime?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 3550

jim the rules staight u cant shine till the judge tells u

__________________
MANIAC MY NAME HUNTING MY GAME!!
MANIAC BLOOD ROCKS!! WHERE THE TRACK POWER IS!!

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0522.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/1619.jpg

IF YOU WANT TO PACK HUNT
BUY YOU A PAIR BEAGLES!


GR NITE CH. HARWOODMANIAC JR 4 # 2 TOP 100 UKC WORLD 2013 OWNER JAY HYDE & DAVID DEPEW




GRNITE CH Hoghill Harwood Kasper
owners Hyde Warlick Leatherman
Qualified for 2013 world Hhunt
OWNER HYDE & WARLICK LEATHERMAN. MY PH 574 306 8438
K-LIGHTS ph.936 767 4965
http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0734.jpg

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Jim, you know the implied scratch as well as anybody.

Fishin much? LOL

Ok, I'll bite. I think Todd covered this before and pretty much said what I did. You can't actively/intentionally shine the tree before shine time, that can lead to a scratch for not following rules/instructions.

BUT you can't go around scratching people cause their light hit the tree either.

It's back to that judgement call again. If you as a judge think someone was trying to get extra shine time then they are scratched, if their light innocently hit the tree then they are not.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

I agree Rip, you can't SEARCH the tree before the judge starts the shinetime. But I dont believe UKC intends a handler to be scratched because his light hit the tree or because he saw the coon look before shinetime starts. We have all lit up a coon walking in from a distance such as across a field and such and I don't think that could ever be considered a scratch offense.
There is a difference between searching a tree and hitting it with your light. I don't think you can be scratched unless it is determined youy were actively searching the tree.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 3550

individual holding first tree (controls) (shineing time of tree for first two minutes)

__________________
MANIAC MY NAME HUNTING MY GAME!!
MANIAC BLOOD ROCKS!! WHERE THE TRACK POWER IS!!

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0522.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/1619.jpg

IF YOU WANT TO PACK HUNT
BUY YOU A PAIR BEAGLES!


GR NITE CH. HARWOODMANIAC JR 4 # 2 TOP 100 UKC WORLD 2013 OWNER JAY HYDE & DAVID DEPEW




GRNITE CH Hoghill Harwood Kasper
owners Hyde Warlick Leatherman
Qualified for 2013 world Hhunt
OWNER HYDE & WARLICK LEATHERMAN. MY PH 574 306 8438
K-LIGHTS ph.936 767 4965
http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy24/maniacjr4/SAM_0734.jpg

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

After my post, I was out mowing grass pondering the same thing. Just had to look it up when I got done. March, 2010 advisor: Implied scratch,
Climbing or killing coon
Refusing to stay with cast
Shining split tree before Judge arrives
Arriving at tree before Judge
Failing to finish scorecard in woods
Failure to leash dog at tree
Encouraging or discouraging dogs(does not mean you can't pet dog at tree)
Squalling at tree with other dogs struckon trail
Shining the tree during the first two minutes if the handler with first tree desires to shine alone
If your spectator shines tree before it is scored
Refusing to vote on a question
Threatening or intimidating others.

__________________
OFFICIAL FIELD TESTER FOR LEMS LIGHTS

Good people do not need laws to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws (Plato)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

You are supposed to determine if a close split tree is to be scored as one tree or two. How do you determine without putting a light up there?

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Shining split tree before Judge arrives

There is a difference between shing a tree and hitting it with your light. A little common sense goes a long way. There are a few that hunt UKC and consider the scratch rules as their own personel weapon that makes up for a sorry dog. A cast vote or competant MOH should be able to see the difference between shinhg the tree and anything else.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
I agree Rip, you can't SEARCH the tree before the judge starts the shinetime. But I dont believe UKC intends a handler to be scratched because his light hit the tree or because he saw the coon look before shinetime starts.

---

__________________

Click here to visit The B&T Coonhunters Message Forum for news, views, open discussion, ads, and event winners in the B&T Breed (Registration, with your full name, required)

Click here to see my Dog List

Last edited by John D on 08-16-2010 at 03:14 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 954

The leader of the cast usually comes up with these scratchable rules, outside a good judgement call.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2008
Location: north cental,mo.
Posts: 605

%To bad the guy that seen jump or get pulled out of the tree wasn't the judge then tree points would have counted!

__________________
Al Brobst
po box 71
Wheeling,Mo 64688
Home of:
Red Eagle Chief

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

No the points wouldn't have counted no matter who seen the coon. You can't score a tree outside of official shine time. Doesn't matter if the whole cast seen it before or after that 10 minutes. Within shine time is the only thing that is scorable for plus tree points.

Yes John, the rule states that all dogs at tree MUST be leashed, that's why I like to get there before the five ends if I can, especially if there is any monkey business going on. They might give flack about not leashing the dogs after the 5, because it says they must be leashed. If it's before the 5 then we can see which one is causing the ruckus LOL.

I do think the Advisor clarified this and said a judge does have the right to observe the dogs and ask you to keep them unleashed for a minute, but it can be a headach that way when we can just innocently slide up close enough to throw a light that way before the 5.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: SE Ok
Posts: 142

Why did the cast have the truck lights on in the first place. Were they rigging the dogs if so the whole bunch should be scratched. Next point, the tree was described as a Christmas tree, unless it is like the ones in previous administrations, it probably was over six or seven feet tall, on that note, if the handlers dog was treeing like most GOOD tree dogs tree, feet on tree, head in the air not on the ground with the nose stuck to the ground, it would be very easy to see a coon without SHINING the tree.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

quote:

---

Originally posted by pawoodrum
Why did the cast have the truck lights on in the first place. Were they rigging the dogs if so the whole bunch should be scratched. Next point, the tree was described as a Christmas tree, unless it is like the ones in previous administrations, it probably was over six or seven feet tall, on that note, if the handlers dog was treeing like most GOOD tree dogs tree, feet on tree, head in the air not on the ground with the nose stuck to the ground, it would be very easy to see a coon without SHINING the tree.

---

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

quote:

---

Originally posted by John D
I agree.




This one surprises me. So, if you go into a tree and a dog comes in, gets up on the tree and the handler is instructed to handle him, and the dog then runs off and stays away, he's scratched?????

---

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged