Registered: Jul 2006
Location: S.E MN
Posts: 899

went to a hunt last night, here's the scenerio. wondering if i was an honest judge?

1st drop: cut dogs loose. dog A and B get gone. Dog C sits at our feet. owner of dog C wants to walk in the woods to get his dog going. I say well lets wait and see what the other dogs are doing. Dog A strikes a ways up the hill, he is struck in for 100. Dog A goes quiet so the 8 is started. 4 minutes go by and Dog B opens up and goes good on trail, struck in for 75. 8 is broke on dog A for dog B being struck in. Dog C is still sitting at our feet, but when dog B opens, Dog C darts off in that direction. Dog C opens and owner strikes her in for 50 and trees her for 125. Dog B is treed for 75 and Dog A is treed in for 50. Walk to the tree, i like to be the first one in, Dog C comes off the tree and puts its nose down by a bunch of fallen logs and barks on another tree and runs back to previous tree. I say Minus Dog C for putting nose on ground and barking on a different tree. A fight breaks out saying she's not minused i told you she would come to me.... well she got minused. The owner would not shine the tree, so the other cast member and I shined, decided to minus the tree. Dog C's owner told the guide, I saw the coon walking in but i'm not letting her get plus points. UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT! Tree is voted on a minus.

2nd drop: same thing dog A and B get gone, Dog C sits at our feet. Dog B is struck in for first, dog A struck in second. Dog C takes off to those dogs and strike in for third. Eventually Dog C is called for first tree, followed by Dog A for second, dog B for third. walk to the tree, guide says maybe all walk in together to see what the dogs are doing. Walk in Dog C is walking around with its nose on the ground, I pointed it out to the owner, he still disagreed. Minused her for going back on trail. owner of Dog B says to minus his dog for going to a different tree and coming back. Dog A is still on tree. Dog C's owner barely shined the tree at all, we voted to circle it. it was a Huge mess in there. after we voted coon was seen. Tree is still circled no plus awarded.

3rd drop: drop dogs, dog A and B take off. C sits at our feet. owner wants to walk his dog in the woods more cause she needs direction.... i mention, well the other dogs are gone.... I start the 30 minutes on the dog for failure to hunt. 25 minutes goes by, Dog A is struck in and soon followed by a tree call.Dog B is struck in deeper. Dog C runs off in that direction. The 2 is started on Dog A and is minused when the 2 expired. Dog C gets in and is struck and treed where dog A was. dog A comes back and trees and is called in for 2nd. 5 expires we walk in to a tree that you can fit your hand around. Dog A and B come in and are minused. owner of dog C shines the tree which you could see the WHOLE thing.... he proceeds to shine for the whole 10 minutes trying to waste hunting time for the rest of the cast because this minus puts him at 475 and out of the hunt. Tree is minused.

dog A and B continue the hunt Dog C and owner left. We made 1 more circle tree that night. Now should i have scratched him for being unsportsman like or what i did was right? oh he also stated that they are just gonna screw me cause they are boyfriend/girlfriend. well i didn't pick my cast, he was hunting a dog with different peoples names on it and i minused his dog and mine. no favoritism going on at all....

Thanks

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Registered: May 2010
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sounds like that person needs to learn his nite hunt rules. and i would have scratched him for being unsportsman like, sure hate when people like that are in a cast.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2005

how long total did dog c sit at you feet ????

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Registered: Aug 2005
Location: marlette michigan
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dog should of been scratched for non hunting.

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Registered: Nov 2008
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SOUNDS LIKE THE GUY WAS A REAL A HOLE HE DEFINETLY COULD HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED., BUT GOOD JOB TO YOU ON KEEPING YOUR COOL AND BEING A FAIR JUDGE.

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Registered: Apr 2010
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It's been a long,long time since i've hunted in a hunt but I believe the rule states you are supposed to move in the direction the dogs are cast,if a handler request it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: atalissa iowa
Posts: 1055

she stated that his dog was lyin at his feet and he wanted to head toward the other dogs.sounds like mhis dog wouldnt hunt until it was walked close to the other dogs.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: S.E MN
Posts: 899

the dog sat at our feet alot, but i could never get the 30 min on it cause it would run off to the other dogs. and yes he only wanted to move because he said the dog needed direction when the other 2 dogs where gone. I didn't know if i did everything correct or not i haven't judged a ton of casts!

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Alex,

They way I understand everything written, I'd say you judged correctly. Only difference is I would have applied the 30 earlier in the hunt and not waited until the 3rd drop.

I don't know who you drew out with or who was in the cast, so I'm not partial to anyone. I'm sure there is always another side to the story.

If you drew out with Josh, that is fine too. As far as I know, most your dogs old enough to hunt are still owned by you guys individually, not together. Per UKC rules this is allowed.

It would be a cold day in hell before I'm walking anyone's dog anywhere if I don't have to. If dogs are out trailing and can be heard well enough from where you are, I'd object ever walking closer just for a lazy dog to go hunting. If you have to walk in order to judge the dogs out working, then fine but if you're walking just to get a lazy dog out from under your feet, as far as I'm concerned that's cheating.

Sounds like you had a bad hunt, but as far as I could tell you judged it honestly and did a pretty good job judging.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: S.E MN
Posts: 899

thanks marc. and i think i did put it on him earlier but stopped it cause it ran off to the other dogs... i didn't know how that worked if you keep it running and just pause it or what so i just stopped it altogether.

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Registered: Feb 2010
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I think you did a good job. Old trick to walk towards hunting dogs hoping a non hunting dog will go out and check them breaking the 30 min.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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Sounds like you scored it right to me. The only thing I might have done different was not tell him I minused him for his dog's nose on the ground. I would just have told him I minused your dog for leaving the tree when it barked up a different tree.

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Very good point HOBO. "Nose to the ground" is in the same catagory as " canopy of the tree", it doesn't exist in the rulebook. The rule used to minuse dogs that aren't treeing satisfactorily is rule 4(c) and that rule states dogs are minused when the dog "leaves the tree". If they are there and they bark atleast once every 2 minutes, they are good. Nose to the ground, nose on the wood, nose in their ass, the rules don't mandate how a dog trees. If they are there and barking, they shouldn't be minused. When that dog barked on the other tree, it has left and is minused. It sounds like the judgeing was handled very well.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: S.E MN
Posts: 899

thank you. i did explain that i minused the dog for leaving the tree and he freaked out saying the dog would come to meet him which it never went to him... but i'm glad at least i handled it all right.

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Alex Rain
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Registered: May 2010
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Sounds like every dog in the cast should have stayed home for a little more training. If a handler requests to walk forward do it, if the dog won't hunt standing still it won't hunt walking it, if it does then so be it. Once you start the non working dog rule on the dog keep it on it until the dog proves that it is hunting, just because it leaves the casts feet doesn't mean you stop the 30 minutes.

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Registered: Sep 2009
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Alex you judged it all right,dont let pukes like this bother you,if you were just tryin to cheat him out you did a bad job since he left the cast early and you still didnt have a cast winner! Some people just gotta blame there dogs faults on somebody else!

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Registered: Sep 2009
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Posts: 1648

Sounds like you need to learn the rules a little better! Kinda looks to me like 2 of the dogs did just fine just got in some bad luck findin the coon!

quote:

---

Originally posted by CWS
Sounds like every dog in the cast should have stayed home for a little more training. If a handler requests to walk forward do it, if the dog won't hunt standing still it won't hunt walking it, if it does then so be it. Once you start the non working dog rule on the dog keep it on it until the dog proves that it is hunting, just because it leaves the casts feet doesn't mean you stop the 30 minutes.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Mn
Posts: 5

U judged that cast the right way and thanks for judging for us last night. Chad

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Yazoo City, Mississippi
Posts: 385

quote:

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Originally posted by Epson
sounds like that person needs to learn his nite hunt rules. and i would have scratched him for being unsportsman like, sure hate when people like that are in a cast.

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But I do think all cast members should arrive at the tree at the same time. I'm in no way questioning what you saw, but it takes the guess work out of the situation with a handler that doesn't want to believe what you saw.
Another thing to remember when serving as a hunting judge is that you carry the card, and keep scores, but all decisions are a majority of cast vote. You don't have to put all the pressure on yourself. Just say the dog was off the tree and barking on the ground and another tree, time for a vote....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

Sorry Tully, a hunting judge makes all decisions except scoring a tree and calling time out. Also the judge WILL be the first to the tree by UKC rules, it is very important to the correct judging of a cast. If I'm judging I tell the cast members at the start that if you beat me to the tree,you can beat me to the truck!

It sounds to me like the cast was judged fairly.

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Registered: Jul 2008
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Posts: 190

Sounds like you did a great job maintaining the integrity of the cast. I agree with one of the other guys, you should have just minused the dog for leaving the tree when it started on another track or when it barked up another tree.

As far as walking, nobody can say that the dog is lazy and that is why it is not hunting. My guess is that this guy walks with his dog when he hunts, and that is what he is accustomed to. Dogs like this require you to be moving, so they think that you are hunting. I suppose that is one good thing about PKC, you can request the cast to walk. In UKC, you really need a dog that just free casts and hunts with no owner interaction and no "checking in".

From your description, it sounds like this is was a young dog with the "ME TOO"disease. It must have been a little annoying to watch that dog get first tree all night.

Keep judging casts, it sounds like you are the right type of gu for the job.

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Registered: May 2010
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Me too dogs do not get first tree. I had a female that used to sit by my my feet and wait for another dog to strike, she would then run in that direction and blow the sox off a track and be first every time. it was actually very annoying because I got last strike every time.

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Last edited by CWS on 07-12-2010 at 01:57 PM

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Registered: Jun 2005
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Sounds like you did a good job judging the cast.

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Registered: May 2006
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Very good point HOBO. "Nose to the ground" is in the same catagory as " canopy of the tree", it doesn't exist in the rulebook. The rule used to minuse dogs that aren't treeing satisfactorily is rule 4(c) and that rule states dogs are minused when the dog "leaves the tree". If they are there and they bark atleast once every 2 minutes, they are good. Nose to the ground, nose on the wood, nose in their ass, the rules don't mandate how a dog trees. If they are there and barking, they shouldn't be minused. When that dog barked on the other tree, it has left and is minused. It sounds like the judgeing was handled very well.

---

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