Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 76

If ukc wants to make these hunts fair to everyone.They cant have 2 dog cast at big hunts,its not fair for anyone in a 4 dog cast.Yor throwing your money away if your in a 4 dog cast while other cast only have 2 dogs.Make it so there is no buddy system in guides also.If you guide you must guide 4 other dogs or if you want to hunt your dog you cant guide. And draw all guides and dogs fairly.Why is it pkc dont post these same kind of scores with the same caliber of dogs in the same area? This stuff needs cleaned up because alot of people are just throwing there money away.Please post your opinions on this.

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

I was very disappointed to see that the walker days score thread was deleted, although I expected it.

I was also disappointed to see Allen started to reply then he did not do so.

The more I find out about these big scores the more I question the leval of honesty and integrity. We all are entitled to out own oppinion but not everything in a coon hunt is possible.

Most know it's a joke, the fact is either youre too afraid to speak up about it or you have ran a score up so you feel it's excusable.

I can tell I am not well liked by most on here but usualy when someone is speaking out against/questioning such a "looked up to individual" all his followers will try to put you down.

I was not at this hunt nor will I ever attend a hunt such as this one for reasons just like this 2020+ score that it took to win it.

I will continue to support UKC at the local hunts and I will attend a few zone hunts. But I will tell you this!!!!!! I would rather throw my money in the wind then give "certian" people the satisfaction of winning a **** **** hunt.

Go ahead and put me down fellow Indiana mafia hunters, I can handle it.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 89

PKC and UKC are 2 different animals. In PKC you just want to win your cast. In ukc you want a big score. I guide at the SS every year. They want to go to a big spot and stay the 2 hours in one spot and simply have a cast winner. When i hunt UKC they want to tree asap, gather the dogs and go somewhere else. Your going to get bigger scores this way. How would you keep from ever having a 2 dog cast? The largert score i ever put up was 1325. 2 dogs got scratched for fighting on the 1st tree and after a couple spots the 3rd guy gave up because i was way ahead and he wanted to get out of my way so i could post a good score. I do not see where UKC did anything wrong at walker days? If 2 men pull out that still left 1 other dog to compete against. If the other dog would have won would all you haters still be mad ? I think not. Your all jealous of a self made man who has worked hard and become the american dream. Russ never had anything given to him and he did not have this hunt given to him. The man who wins the most in my area is also the man who puts more time in the woods than anyone else. See the pattern?

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Mr Houser, UKC did not send out any 2 dogs casts at walker days. All those casts were 3 or 4 dog casts, almost all of them 4 dog casts. They become 2 dog casts when dog are scratched or withdrawn and neither of those things is UKC's fault. How would you feel if your cast was disqualified because two dogs left your cast? And there will be NO breed day events if you ban hunting guides. Lets atleast try to be realistic in our demands.

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Registered: Not Yet
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P.S.....Russ Bellar wasn't the judge, he wasn't the guide and he wasn't the handler on that cast, he just had the misfortune of being the owner of the dog that won Walker Days.

Something else to keep in mind. That cast had a non-hunting judge that had absolutely no connection to anything Bellar. That judge signed that card certifing it to be true and correct as did the handlers. Everyone of you who are claiming or even insinuating that the cast was in any way crooked is just the same as calling that judge a liar and a crook and calling Mike Nelsen the same thing. You sure you really want to do that?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 1085

Mike Nelson was the handler of Lil Red and John Weaver was the judge. Do either of you know them? Have either of you ever drawn them in a cast?

I have yet to find a single person who said anything bad about either man. In fact, people have stated that they don't question the score because these men were most directly involved. That may mean nothing to you, but it apparently does to people who know them. These men apparently have some level of self respect or they wouldn't conduct themselves in ways that cause people who know them to make such comments. Just keep that in mind while you cast doubts on that score and their involvement in that cast.....regardless of what you think of Bellar and his past.

I judged a cast winner that scored 1,025+, 225- and 375 circle on Friday night. We did nothing but score split trees all night. No tree had more than 2 dogs on it. With a little luck, 2,000+ would have easily been within reach...and I've never been on a cast that scored more than 1,250+. Coon were everywhere...and it doesn't take more than a few minutes to tree a coon in most places. If dogs pack, you're running, treeing and scoring most coon in under 10 minutes in that area. If you have a dog that doesn't make mistakes...and can put up coon that other dogs just can't....forget about it.

As for the rest...

1. Lil Red was drawn into a 4 dog cast each night. One handler on Saturday was called into work, apparently, and another lost to Lil Red by over 1,000 points on Friday night...and decided he was wasting his time and gas to try it again on Saturday night. (The scorecard was posted all day Saturday and I looked at it. She had all 1st trees.) You can't re-draw casts in such a situation...or you open yourself up to a whole set of new and worse problems.

2. Finding 65 quality guides each night is hard. Finding 65 NON-HUNTING quality judges will scare most host clubs away in a heartbeat. It's a good idea, but the numbers make it impractical. The most qualified guides in an area are also the guys who want to enter the hunt.

3. I don't think that comparing a big hunt, UKC cast where the goal is to score as many points as possible....to a PKC cast where the Final 4 advance and all other cast winners get paid...is a fair comparison. That says nothing of your ability to score more points under UKC rules than PKC rules. Over the course of 8 or 9 or 10 coon, the scoring difference adds up to several hundred points. You may not think so, but most guys who hunt both registries believe it. I'll also argue that dogs entered in PKC hunts are more apt to split tree than dogs entered in UKC hunts, which makes it even tougher to score big. That's just my opinion. You can say that they are the same dogs, but I don't see most of the same guys at UKC Walker Days that I see at the big PKC hunts. I just don't. Some...yes, but mostly they are different people and dogs.

I know I didn't change your opinions on anything, but things aren't as cut and dried as you make them out to be.

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

John Weaver is from my neck of the woods and yes I have drawn him many times and seen his judging skills.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Minerva, Ohio
Posts: 1103

I'm telling you right now anyone who thinks everything is going 100% by the book on these cast with scores of 2000 is lieing to thereselves and everyone else too!! You and me both know It !

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

quote:

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Originally posted by ysudep2
I'm telling you right now anyone who thinks everything is going 100% by the book on these cast with scores of 2000 is lieing to thereselves and everyone else too!! You and me both know It !

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

Does everyone that enters Walker days have a chance of winning?......Yes.

Do they all have an equal chance?...No way.

The UKC world hunt format is probably the most fair I have hunted, but how are you going to do this over 1 weekend?

Its pretty obvious that it takes a lot of preperation to win A breed days hunt both with a dog and guiding....If you want to win it, Do what the winners are doing and prepare.

Or you can just show up with a dog and cry about not being able to win it all.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 53

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Mr Houser, UKC did not send out any 2 dogs casts at walker days. All those casts were 3 or 4 dog casts, almost all of them 4 dog casts. They become 2 dog casts when dog are scratched or withdrawn and neither of those things is UKC's fault.

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

So wait!!!!!!!!

We should take a weeks vacation and go find us tons of land to guide on. Then once we get it, place buckets all around to ensure a good score.

Or pay someone high dollar to take us to there honey holes.

Is this what you call preparing?

I thought and hmmm...still think that preparing was hunting youre dog 5 or 6 nights a week, tunning them up on their weaknesses, knowing them inside and out.

Maybe I have been preparing in te wrong way all along. $$$

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 53

quote:

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Originally posted by josh


Its pretty obvious that it takes a lot of preperation to win A breed days hunt both with a dog and guiding....If you want to win it, Do what the winners are doing and prepare.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

quote:

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Originally posted by treberta


Maybe I have been preparing in te wrong way all along. $$$

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Apparently you have.

I would think such a seasoned coonhunter would know this by now.

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

quote:

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Originally posted by josh
Apparently you have.

I would think such a seasoned coonhunter would know this by now.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Thorndale,Pa
Posts: 316

Here we go again ...The same few people still crying over SOMETHING that THEY had NOTHING to do WITH.....Go hunt your ?KC hunt where you can win with minus and leave us that want to hunt UKC ALONE, since its clear you few guys are never able to win in UKC"S format...Another thing we run into around here is everyone thinks they need to shoot every coon in there spots to make a man made dog and then when you return to those spots with your cast, In your hunt you can barely tree 1 coon..... I know, because we still have a few local guys here that train/kill year around trying to make that dog..... TREEBERTA, give it up.......its getting old...try another sport ,This one is not working out for you....

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Curt Kerns
Nite CH Lone Pine Banshee
(GRNITECH'PR'CHEAT RIVER BIG HORN CRUISE X NITECH'PR'LONE PINE SADIE)

PR Thunder Struck Moon Shine
(GRCH GRNITECH'PR' ROCK RIVER THUNDER X NITECH BEAVER RUN HOLLY)

Wicked one Little Camo Petey
(Wicks Camo Comet X Wick's Camo Catch)

Chester/Berks Coon Hunters

Morgantown,Pa 484 467 6061(cell)

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 53

quote:

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Originally posted by treberta


It doesn't take much of a brain to realize how these big hunts are starting to operate.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 53

quote:

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Originally posted by Velocity
Go hunt your ?KC hunt where you can win with minus and leave us that want to hunt UKC ALONE, since its clear you few guys are never able to win in UKC"S format...

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

Velocity, maybe you mised the point where I said I will not waste my time/money at these large events. Maybe you overlooked that, or just chose to ignore it.

I have two decent coon dogs. One was given to me as a house pet, another I paid 150$ for neither were anyhting; At first glance.

Now that they are both two years old they are both Nite Chs with wins toward Grand.

I will put them up against anything you own "OWN" being they key word. I think this sport is working out just fine for me.

I'm guessing you (velocity) are against the coundtown tree rule as well?

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

I don't know anything about anything except that my buddy gives me his hold coonhound bloodlines and american cooners when he is done with them. As I look over them I see the same people on the cover over and over and over winning at major events. I don't know what goes on at the big hunts and to me it really doesn't matter. I don't base what I think of a dog completely on what it has one and to be honest the name of the game is to win, and I respect people that find a way to win. If I want to talk about a dog or a man I want to have had a met them and hunted with them before I say a word.

I do however find it nearly unreal that there is not at least a couple other dogs in a big event like the one in question that have been hunted just as hard as the winner or as not as good of a dog as the winner owns and I know there are other capable handlers. One would think that all else being equal it the law of averages would say that it would be tough to come out on top in big events over and over and over. This is just my completely uninformed observation, but then again I don't know anything about anything....

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Guys, you fail to realize that this little RED dog AVERAGES more than 1000+ points per UKC hunt. That is her AVERAGE!!!!!!!

She finished from NT CH to GRAND NT over the course of a month scoring more than 5000+ points win NO MINUS...

If 1000 + is her "average, why would 2000+ not be a good night?

Friday night, the top three GR NT average score was 1520+, the top three NT CH average score was 1491, and the top three registered average was 1267.

I guess everyone cheated cause they came back with high scores.

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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

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Registered: Oct 2009
Location:
Posts: 1444

Joe, I can't help but notice youre also from Indiana and I also couldn't help but remember the fact that you have hunted with Bellar many many times. Of course in youre noble ways will come up with a smoke screen.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

The same ball clubs that get into a winning habit stay that way ...

The same horse owners and trainers are in the Kentucky Derby mix every year...

The same teams that found out how to win with roosters were there knocking on the door every weekend also ...


It just proves there are secrets and equations that work ...


I hardly ever see that those big winners were losers prior to a big hunt ... hardly ever hear those big winners weren't real salty .

Hardly ever hear that those big winners didn't have a team behind them ... it takes more than one person to pull those wins off .

Of the competitive teams that draw out at big hunts ... the one that gets the breaks will win ...

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:

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Originally posted by treberta
Joe, I can't help but notice youre also from Indiana and I also couldn't help but remember the fact that you have hunted with Bellar many many times. Of course in youre noble ways will come up with a smoke screen.

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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Thorndale,Pa
Posts: 316

well lets see here .... First off i could have an old puter peeing match (So 3rd grade) or i could put it on the line and simply say the highest i have ever scored in a cast with any of my hounds is 675+..... They are pleasure hounds first and foremost. alot of people would not even feed them..... What i'm seeing here is a few naysayers that were not part of a hunt saying mean and ILL things about someone who is a professional in our sport( To me) and eats ,sleeps and breaths coondogs.... If i was to run around and throw all my own thoughts or opinions out here everyday i would not be a well liked person... But i usualy think my way through it and reason with myself before typing and sending.... If you are so up on hunting against anything i own...why don't you and the few naysayers just call the few BIG guys out for a little buddy hunt and see what they say.....I see Elvis always seems to have an opening for anyone to come and try.....Like i said before it sounds like these Few big guys are in it to win it and don't show up unless they have a pretty good one on the lead.... I would enjoy drawing out with one of these fine hounds, but till i do i can only imagine how good they must be..... so lets see a few of you NAYSAYERS call them out and see what the reply is instead of just whining that you want the rules changed.... Curt Kerns

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Curt Kerns
Nite CH Lone Pine Banshee
(GRNITECH'PR'CHEAT RIVER BIG HORN CRUISE X NITECH'PR'LONE PINE SADIE)

PR Thunder Struck Moon Shine
(GRCH GRNITECH'PR' ROCK RIVER THUNDER X NITECH BEAVER RUN HOLLY)

Wicked one Little Camo Petey
(Wicks Camo Comet X Wick's Camo Catch)

Chester/Berks Coon Hunters

Morgantown,Pa 484 467 6061(cell)

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