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Got my new Bloodlines today. I see they have all the rule change proposals in the Advisor column.

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Registered: Oct 2009
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Some dang good ones at that!

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I'm hoping the TWB&FA will vote on the following changes:
Prop#1.YES
Prop#2.YES
Prop#3. NO
Prop#4. NO
Prop#5. YES
Prop#6. NO
Prop#7a. NO
Prop#7b. YES
Prop#8. YES
Prop#9. No
Prop#10. don't care
Prop#11. YES
Prop#12. don't care
Prop#13NO

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Tonkawa Oklahoma
Posts: 5586

No fare I don't have mine yet..........lol

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Sedalia mo
Posts: 685

I dont think they need to change any of them for at least 10 more years. To many changes every 2 years to confusing for most coonhunters. jmo

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Got my new Bloodlines today. I see they have all the rule change proposals in the Advisor column.

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2013 World Champion Bluetick, 2013 AO Overall Bred By winner GRCH 'PR' Sexy and I know It (breeder)
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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2963

I haven't got my book yet, but they have got to change the two coon/hour used to something else with the turn loose rule they have now for striking back in for 100. Take care, Ron.

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I am for fixing the strike rule after 1 hour or 2 coons by the same dog. I am also good with changing to the countdown but I won't get mad if it stays the same.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

I vote for JIM to list all these proposals..I dont get a bloodlines!

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Michael Ghorley

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I would just be glad to get my Bloodlines.

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Proposal #1- I'm ok with, I prefer hunting under a countdown but I'm disappointed to see UKC possibly adapting this rule. I like that each registry is a bit different.

Proposal #2-OK, with reservations.

Proposal #3- No. Any dog that should accumulate 400- pts should be excused from the cast.

Proposal #4-No. If a dog is declared treed at the end of a hunt, that tree should be scored accordingly. If they ball up and fight, or tree a grinner, they should be scratched... I don't care if they are sitting with 1500+.

Proposal #5-Yes. Yes. Yes.

Proposal #6-No. For the same reasons as #4.

Proposal #7-Ok, but I still haven't found UKC give an official interpretation when 1 dog has met the non-working dog criteria, yet 1 dog carrying strike hasn't, and another dog has scored on 2 coon. I don't see that this proposal is fixing anything.

Proposal #8- Ok, same as #7.

Proposal #9- Don't care

Proposal #10- Don't care

Proposal #11- Still needs clarification.

Proposal #12-Don't care

Proposal #13- Don't care


Regarding the non-working dog rule, If Dogs A,B,C,&D are struck in that order. Dogs B,C,&D are declared treed and trees is plussed. Dogs B, C, & D are recast and restruck in the same order. Dogs B &C are treed and tree is plussed. I still haven't heard UKC give an official answer whether Dogs B&C are eligible to go in for 100 when restruck. They've met the non-working dog rule over Dog A, but not over Dog D. 2 current rules contradict each other and I don't see how these proposals have addressed that. I believe TK and AG have both given different interpretations on this. Maybe I'm missing something.

Regarding authority of the judge, I don't have a problem changing it because a good majority of folks aren't enforcing it as it should be. I've heard of more than one cast where a dog treed off-game or was caught fighting after the hunt time expired, and no one did anything about it. But I feel if a dog is declared treed prior to the hunt expiring, that dog should be subject to anything within the rules for scoring the tree. Does this mean if someone trees they're dog at the end of the hunt, and it moves it can't be minused because the hunt is over? Why should dogs fighting on the last tree of the night not be scratched simply because hunt time is up? Over the years, all I've ever heard for an interpretation is "if a dog can't be plussed, it can't be minused". Now this basically says if a dog is treed within hunt time, tree is to be scored if it has a raccoon, but everything else is deleted because the hunt is over? Again am I missing something?

Regarding Proposal 11, in a nitehunt I typically turn my phone on silent. Sometimes I may use it to check the actual time and to record time-in and time-out. Under this proposal, does this mean if my buddy back home (not participating in the event) texts me and asks "how'd your hunt go" during hunt time, even if I don't respond, I could be scratched? Or if my buddy hunting the other side of town leaves me a voicemail and asks "Did you hunt Johnson's pasture yet tonight?" and I check that during a timeout I could be scratched? I see nothing wrong with the current cell phone rule regarding in relation to scores. That is pretty easy to interpret.

I don't have a problem with UKC's rules as the are. I have a huge problem that they are so poorly clarified and interpreted. I also have a problem that many times it falls back to the interpretation of the Advisor with the majority of today's nitehunt participants have never seen nor do they have access to.

I don't see how any of these rule proposals are addressing the real issue.

Last edited by on 03-31-2010 at 11:01 PM

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Prince Edward Island,Canada
Posts: 4589

quote:

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Originally posted by Cynthia
are they listed anywhere on the website for those that do not get the book?

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'PR'LEAD'S MIDNITE SASSY
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BPIG MBBPIG WINDAMIRS RED LIGHT DISTRICT V AMBERLANE
LEGACYK DARE TO DREAM V CBLUES
LEGACYK WHITE AS A GHOST V CBLUES

Gone but not forgotten
GRNITECH GRCH PKC CH'PR'CLEMENTS' BLUE PRANCER
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Faribault, Minnesota
Posts: 838

Here ya go for those who don't have the book or don't get it. These are the proposals. Hope this helps.


2011/2012 UKC Coonhound Rule Change Proposals

Proposal #1~ Rule 2 (b) / Point System: - add to read:
125 points for dog declared treed first; 75 points second; 50 points third and 25 points fourth. One minute after first dog has been declared treed; second tree position will be closed. Two minutes after first dog has been declared treed; third tree position will be closed. Any dog(s) treed after two minutes will receive 25 tree points. Any dogs declared treed after five minutes refer to Rule 4(k).
This proposal adds a countdown on tree, otherwise, referred to as “the progressive tree rule”. It will not award a second or third dog with as many points per the current rule should they not tree or be declared treed within the first two minutes after the first dog is declared treed.

Proposal #2~ Rule 4 – add new rule to read:
4(l) If a majority of the cast cannot hear a dog that has been declared struck or treed, dog is awarded the called position points and minused.
This makes it mandatory that a majority of the cast must be able to hear a dog that has been declared struck or treed. Otherwise, the called position points will be awarded and minused. The current policy instructs the judge to not accept a call in the case of the dog that has been declared stuck or treed that cannot be heard by the judge.

Proposal #3~ Rule 6(a). Change:
Eliminate 6(a).
The idea suggests it might help keep cast members as participants of the cast for the duration of the hunt. Another suggests it would eliminate potential embarrassment to the owner. And thirdly, it provides “full” competition for the whole hunt so long as no dogs are scratched for other reasons.

Proposal #4~ Rule 6 (b & c) change any portions of the rules that use the terminology “during the authority of the judge” to:
… hunting time including any time out periods prior to the expiration of hunt time.
This will make it so that dogs are only subject to being scratched for fighting during the 120 minutes of hunt time which does still also includes any time outs during the course of the hunt. However, once hunt time expires no sanctions relative to fighting are applied.

Proposal #5~ Rule 6(d) / change to read:
Failing to make any attempt to hunt within any 15 consecutive scorecard minutes.
This changes the amount of time a dog is given for not hunting from 30 minutes to 15 minutes.

Proposal #6~ Rule 6 (k) / Change to read:
In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, for running, treeing or molesting off game during hunting time including any time out periods prior to the expiration of hunt time.
This proposal eliminates the possibility of scratching dogs for off game after hunt time has expired. It does not, however, save a dog from being scratched during any time outs that are called during the hunt prior to the expiration of hunt time.

Proposal #7 (a)~ Rule 7 Non-Working Dog Rule / Add a second sentence which reads:
No dog(s) to strike in over a non-working dog until that dog has scored on two separate coons.
This changes the current policy and clarifies that a dog must be a part of scoring on two separate coons before it is/they are eligible for strike positions, or higher than, that are currently being held by a non-working dog(s).

Proposal #7(b)~ Rule 7 Non-Working Dog Rule / Change to read:
If dog is not working as part of cast all strike positions will be open to other dogs after one hour of hunting time has elapsed.
This proposal eliminates the portion of the current rule where strike positions become available after two coons have been scored. The only time those positions would become available is after a dog(s) has held the position for one hour.

Proposal #8~ Rule 11 – add to read:
When hunting judge is used; handler must remain with, and as part of, cast for duration of hunt time with exception to emergencies such as sickness, physical inabilities or is scratched from the cast due to unsportsmanlike conduct or stirring up trouble.
This proposal keeps all cast members as a part of all scoring procedures for the duration of the hunt for the sake of any questionable scoring that may otherwise be done with fewer witnesses. Further, it helps maintain integrity of all scores of the event.

Proposal #9~ Rule 13 - Add to read:
Any handler failing to sign the scorecard in the woods may have the opportunity to sign upon returning the scorecard to, and in view of, the MOH/HD and avoid being scratched.
This simply gives any individual who after completion of the hunt failed to sign the scorecard in the woods may do so in view of the Master of Hounds at the clubhouse and be considered for placement in the event.

Proposal #10~ Bench Show Rules
Eliminate Rule 26 which states; {Dogs will be disqualified if male is castrated or female is spayed.}
Allows spayed or neuter dogs to be shown in UKC Licensed Coonhound Bench Shows.

Proposal #11~ Cell Phones /add to Rule 6.
No phones or any electronic device to be used to relay personal message transmissions and or play games, during any parts of the hunt with exception to reasonable situations that are approved by the judge.
This proposal makes it clear that cell phones and electronic gaming devices are not to be used during the hunt. Using a phone for purposes relative to situations involving the hunt is acceptable. It is recommended that guides contact landowners or otherwise whenever necessary.

Proposal #12~ Field Trial and Water Race / Point System - Change to read:
Heat Winners
A dog winning First Line receives 5 points
A dog winning First Tree receives 5 points
Semi-Final Winners:
No points issued for semifinal line or tree winners.
Grand Final Winners
A dog winning First Line receives 10 points
A dog winning First Tree receives 15 points
No dog may receive over 35 points in any Field Trial or Water Race

Proposal #13~ Veterans Casts – change to read:
Individuals age 60 or older, are entitled to participate in Veteran’s Casts at club, state association and breed association level UKC Licensed Nite Hunts. Veteran’s Casts will not be run at Autumn Oaks, the UKC Winter Classic and the UKC World Championship including R.Q.E.’s, the Zone Semifinals or the Finals.
Current policy in order to participate in a Veteran’s Casts requires the individual to be no less than 55 years of age.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 480

THanks Tardawg!

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: MO.
Posts: 110

BLUE FROST I AGREE WITH YOU LEAVE THE RULES ALONE THIS IS NOT PKC AFRAID MANY DOGS WILL BE MESSED UP AND I DO NOT LIKE A LOT OF SLICK TREEING DOGS AND I AM AFRAID THIS WILL HAPPEN WITH THE TREE RULE CHANGES NO ARGUMENT JUST MY RIGHT TO VOICE MY OPINION.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

So if rule 8 was to pass..What would happen if you didnt stay with the cast for the rest of the hunt?

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

#1 Yes
#2 Yes
#3 No
#4 Yes
#5 Yes
#6 Yes and No! Needs changing but not the dumb double standard thats quoted in the bloodlines.
#7a No
#7b Yes
#8 No
#9 Yes
#10 Yes
#11 No
#12 Don't care
#13 Yes

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
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quote:

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Originally posted by MILKYWAY
BLUE FROST I AGREE WITH YOU LEAVE THE RULES ALONE THIS IS NOT PKC AFRAID MANY DOGS WILL BE MESSED UP AND I DO NOT LIKE A LOT OF SLICK TREEING DOGS AND I AM AFRAID THIS WILL HAPPEN WITH THE TREE RULE CHANGES NO ARGUMENT JUST MY RIGHT TO VOICE MY OPINION.

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Last edited by gfults on 04-01-2010 at 04:48 AM

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

quote:

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Originally posted by gfults
This rule change wont make dogs into slick treeing idiots!! They cant read! This rule desperately needs to be changed. If it is changed, you will see alot less me tooing idiots winning by backing 4 minutes into the 5 and recieving 75 tree points!! I hunt a bunch of PKC and if you think thats the kind of dogs that win consistently in PKC, you're wrong! You better be packing a coondog if you expect to win on a normal basis at PKC hunts!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

quote:

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Originally posted by patches9452
if your packing a coondog that me too dog ain't gonna win noway

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Michael Ghorley

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Location: ackerman,ms
Posts: 2229

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Not true..I've saw them beat a coondog twice before..Youve just never drawn a real big eared me tooing dog is all..I've saw one go almost a mile in 4 min to cover another dog..

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: s.c.
Posts: 6961

My newest score card (with the rules on back) is probably from the turn of the century. I don't have a Bloodlines to refer to and I don't know the current rules. However, these current Proposals intrigue me. The parts that are the important changes within a run on sentence might be ___________underlined or parenthasatised with the legal demarcation of "with emphasis added" . ie, since I don't care for go yonder dogs, I like the one where when the majority of the cast can't hear the dog, they can take a vote, and the dog will get whatever points he "deserves" was called (by his handler) for (and they'll be minus points) except (the hunting judge shall be allowed such dog)(my understanding and translation) because he can hear such dog and 'with emphasis added' this will quieten down the three local buddies to vote that they do not hear such dog.

I'm dang near deaf anyway, and my capacity to read, comprehend, analize, understand, and place into motion that which is understood, is diminished day by day with age. Even though I am a consultant who makes his meager wages as a result of an Act pased by Congress, who must "fine tune" his understanding of the Act to coincide with the Findings of the United States Supreme Court, I find these rules, as well as" proposed changes to the "rules" difficult to fathom. I shall be checking with the "Advisor" as he administers juris prudence in a timely fashion, not that I am prepared to Challenge as much as I am to see how far off base I am to proposed rules (not technically "Rule Making") as compared to the language that would be plainer had it been written by Beaureaucrats and would be much plainer written by coonhunters even if it includes, extemporaniously, the word "aint" evernowenagin.

Last edited by l.lyle on 04-01-2010 at 07:12 AM

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Location: s.c.
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quote:

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Originally posted by bluefrost316
I dont think they need to change any of them for at least 10 more years. To many changes every 2 years to confusing for most coonhunters. jmo

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Newwood WI
Posts: 1354

2011/2012 UKC Coonhound Rule Change Proposals

Proposal #1
no; 2 things, 1st if you want to hunt pkc/akc rules go hunt in those registries 2nd and this will be common amongst many of the rule changes, why make things more difficult for the judges, its already hard enough getting good judges

Proposal #2
not sure i like this one, to easy to be buddied up on

Proposal #3
sure

Proposal #4
no, i personaly think a dog should be able to be scratched for fighting from the time it arrives at the event till the event is over

Proposal #5
why do people keep wanting to change this rule, if anything it should just be eliminated. if you cant beat a dog that decides to stand around, you should be more concerned with whats on the end of your leash

Proposal #6, fine i guess, though i dont think a change is in order here

Proposal #7 (a)
seems the best of the 2

Proposal #7(b)
no

Proposal #8
though i like the concept here, if i minus out or withdraw because things arent going my way and i can get an early thus much safer start on what is likely going to be a 2-13hr drive i should be able too.

Proposal #9
yes

Proposal #10
yes

Proposal #11
sure, though how will this be enforced?

Proposal #12
no opinion

Proposal #13
no, keep as is

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quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Flatten

OOOOOOOOYYEEEEEAAAA, Macho Man Randy Savage. I think of that dude every time I see a post from Jim Hill.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

I think its time for folks to reniew thier subscribtions to Coonhound Bloodlines LOL JK !!!

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