Registered: May 2005
Location: virginia
Posts: 7043

IF IM NOT MISTAKEN PARENT BREED ASSOCATION SETS THE RULES FOR SINGLE REG. MAYBE YOU'LL SHOULD PUT IN THE RULES NO CROSS BREAD DOGS. IM GOING TO SUGGEST THAT THE B&T ASSO. DO THAT. HOWEVER I DO THINK UKC SHOULD HAVE A CROSS BREED PROGRAM SO THEY COULD HUNT IN THE HUNTS. IT WOULD BE ASHAME IF DOGS LIKE RUSS' DOG COUNDNT COMPETE .

ITS NOT JEALOUSY ITS PEOPLE WANTING TO KEEP THIER BLOOD PURE TO THE BREED I DONT WANT TO BREED ONE OF MY BLACK DOGS AND HAVE PUPS COMEOUT SHOWING WHITE, TICKS, BRINDLE,OR RED BONE.

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Registered: Oct 2009
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To an extent I agree.

My problem with single registration is this. Take a dog like lil red. She is listed as a redbone. Does she look like a redbone? Sure she does but she is not a true redbone. She is at least haf walker ( Is she a coon dog YES but this has nothing to do with her ability to tree coons ) and it would not be right if they went out and had her bred to a redbone and she produced 4 or 5 great dogs that were all listed as redbones when in fact that walker male that produced her had alot to do with it. Then 30 years down the road the redbone breed is the "dominate breed" due to the line of lil red. See my point?

The same thing happened in the english breed with speck/hardrock.

I highly doubt Bellar intends to breed red but it's just the point of the matter.

All the redbone guys can see is her red color not the half walker behind her.

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Registered: May 2005
Location: virginia
Posts: 7043

quote:

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Originally posted by treberta
To an extent I agree.

My problem with single registration is this. Take a dog like lil red. She is listed as a redbone. Does she look like a redbone? Sure she does but she is not a true redbone. She is at least haf walker ( Is she a coon dog YES but this has nothing to do with her ability to tree coons ) and it would not be right if they went out and had her bred to a redbone and she produced 4 or 5 great dogs that were all listed as redbones when in fact that walker male that produced her had alot to do with it. Then 30 years down the road the redbone breed is the "dominate breed" due to the line of lil red. See my point?

The same thing happened in the english breed with speck/hardrock.

I highly doubt Bellar intends to breed red but it's just the point of the matter.

All the redbone guys can see is her red color not the half walker behind her.

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TREETALKIN RANGER DANGER
TREETALKIN LIL SHOOTEM UP JAKE
GRCHPR TREETALKIN NIGHTHAWK GONE BUT NEVER WILL BE FORGOTTEN R.I.P.

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Midway, tn
Posts: 64

Unless you have bred every cross in the last 7 generations of your hounds pedigree can you say 100% for sure that your dog is pure?

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Treberta,

Ain't meanin to pick a fight with you.....but,

How long have you really been at this game? I've been at it long enough to remember when a good coon treeing dog was bred to a good coon treeing dog....regardless of color.

Shoot, the 7 breeds that we have are not old enough to be "pure". I take it that you hunt walkers....

Guess what...they are not "pure"..there is black and tan, bluetick, border collie, austrailian shepherd, english pointer and other assorted "breeds" and mutts.

For my money, I would rather the breeder be HONEST about the whole mess, tell me that a redbone is half walker...show me the pedigree and let me make the decision if I want to breed to that dog or get a pup out of it. By making it "illegal" to do it...somebody is going to lie, switch papers, or make up some darned story to enable them to register the dog.

Which would you rather have...an honest pedigree that names the ancestors, or some voodoo pedigree that's a total lie....

Oh...and by the way, I ate breakfast with Russ the morning after Lil Red won....and I wouldn't take your bet that she won't be bred! He can't wait to get pups out of a winner..he's made a habit of that for quite some time.

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Corky, you might be interested to know that the B&T Association already requires a 3 generation pedigree as a requirement for single registration with the B&T Association. So any dog with Lil Reds background could not be single registered as a B&T under their current reqirements.
Also, as of March 2009, the Redbone Association also requires a 3 generation pedigree so Red couldn't have been single registered as a Redbone after March 2009.

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Registered: Oct 2009
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Posts: 1444

Joe, no matter the issue weather it be coon hunting or birth certificates in the Little Leage World Series you are going to have lies. When I look at my little females pedigree I see what I see, is it honest? I have no idea but I have to take it as that. In today's hound world we have had "pure" bred dogs for some time now and by me breeding my walker female to an english and calling them english is in a way dishonest no matter how you slice it or dice it.

You can't tell me that there is no difference in today's walkers then 30 years ago.

If my meamory does me justice an english fox hound looks almost identical to a treeing walker.

I agree with you that it's that persons choice what they want however I think it's wrong when the walker dogs we know today are used to "better" another breed.

Allow stuff like this then everyone will be breeding blues to reds, english to black dogs etc..

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Corky, you might be interested to know that the B&T Association already requires a 3 generation pedigree as a requirement for single registration with the B&T Association. So any dog with Lil Reds background could not be single registered as a B&T under their current reqirements.
Also, as of March 2009, the Redbone Association also requires a 3 generation pedigree so Red couldn't have been single registered as a Redbone after March 2009.

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Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

JUST DONT BREED TO HER OR BUY A PUP DOWN LINE FROM HER AND YOULL BE FINE. ALL THE BREEDS TODAY ARE STILL GETTING A THROW BACKS EVERY SO OFTEN SO THAT TELLS ME THEY ALL HAVE BEEN CROSSED UP BACK DOWN THE LINE.

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Buckshot, you may be right but I got my imformation off the UKC site today.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

John,

I could not agree with you more, and disagree with you at the same time.

I'm torn..... and here is why...

By closing single registration completely we are effectively closing the gene pool. I know of a breeder that several years ago made a very successful and very fateful cross. Took a really nice walker male and bred it to a border collie female. Did not hunt the long haired pups....but hunted the short haired, walker appearing pups. Took the best of that litter ( a little female that was TERROR on coon) and bred her back to another good walker male.

The result was a litter of 3/4 walkers, and 1/4 border collie.. The ones that met the breed standard, and would pass the inspection were single registered. No fancy paper swapping, no cheating...but instead the collie's name appeared on the papers as an unregistered dog.

This made a GREAT impact to an entire line of dogs that are well known and well loved today in the Walker breed. That little female brought something to the breed that it was lacking...and by closing the single registration, we are saying that our genetics are sound, we have reproducible traits in what we have already....

If used correctly, single registration is a powerful breeding tool to "improve" the breed....without it, I'm not saying that the breeds will go in the toilet, but I'm not sure that they could "improve" either......???

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: ALABAMA
Posts: 5183

Jim the B&T Assoc. site also shows "You must have in your possession a complete three generation ancestral pedigree."

http://www.abtcha.net/registration.html

But the single registration person for the assoc. and ad in bloodlines stated differently.

Don't know how many people know of the new changes.

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Well then there would seem to be a slight confict between the Association and their person in charge of single registration. Maybe John D can straighten it out for us. I bet he knows.

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
Posts: 4670

The Whole Purpose of Single Reg. was so the Breeder would Have a Knowable Out Cross if Need in their Breeding Program..

The Whole System has Gone Astray !!!

The Breed Assoc . were to Keep Close Track of possible Out Cross Options and Have a List of Breeding Make-up of Each to be made avb. to All Breeders..

The European Breed assocs. still do this Process Properly with Possible Outcross Option to their Breeders ..

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Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

quote:

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Originally posted by Oak Ridge
John,

I could not agree with you more, and disagree with you at the same time.

I'm torn..... and here is why...

By closing single registration completely we are effectively closing the gene pool. I know of a breeder that several years ago made a very successful and very fateful cross. Took a really nice walker male and bred it to a border collie female. Did not hunt the long haired pups....but hunted the short haired, walker appearing pups. Took the best of that litter ( a little female that was TERROR on coon) and bred her back to another good walker male.

The result was a litter of 3/4 walkers, and 1/4 border collie.. The ones that met the breed standard, and would pass the inspection were single registered. No fancy paper swapping, no cheating...but instead the collie's name appeared on the papers as an unregistered dog.

This made a GREAT impact to an entire line of dogs that are well known and well loved today in the Walker breed. That little female brought something to the breed that it was lacking...and by closing the single registration, we are saying that our genetics are sound, we have reproducible traits in what we have already....

If used correctly, single registration is a powerful breeding tool to "improve" the breed....without it, I'm not saying that the breeds will go in the toilet, but I'm not sure that they could "improve" either......???

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