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Dan Dogs
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

training question

i have never tried training a dog to heal with out a leash on...and that is the main reason i can't stand hunting two dogs together on occassion..when i was younger i could lead three dogs thru the brush and cornfields..lately i have seen alot of dogs trained to just follow along with the leash dragging behind..do the dogs stay with you if you happen to walk across a hot track?? does anybody have a step by step process on training a dog this way??

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12-17-2009 05:43 PM

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Matt Brabender
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PATIENCE my friend alot of patience!

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12-17-2009 05:53 PM

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Rip
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Location: Morrison TN
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Well the one I had would cry if she came across a track and would only go if I gave her the command. But she sounded so pitiful I would usually let her. If I didn't want her to go I just kept saying "heal" just in case, but she never left when I didn't want her to.

Of course I was real proud of myself for teaching her to do that. She didn't even need the leash on, just the command "heal".

Problem was I made her heal behind me and only allowed her to go if I put her in front of me. Well like someone said on another thread, when you train dogs you can sometimes cause other problems. If she checked back in she wouldn't go out again until I put her in front of me and turned her loose. Her default became heal until told she could go (guess that's what a young guy gets for over using a command, I never carried a leash etc).

So in a hunt, if she hunted an area out she would heal there too LOL. It only cost me once in her life, but there is unintended consequences.

To get her to do it I got one of those Christmas paper sleeves and used it to keep her in check, walked around the house with my shoulder against the house, leash in the same hand as was against the house keeping her close if she tried to pass me. I would give the command and every time she tried to get in front I would bop her on the head/nose with the cardboard tube. Worked like a charm. Reinforced it a few times and she was money. Problem was I over used it and got her into the habit of doing it all the time unless specifically released.

I sure loved that about her though, pretty nice not to ever need a lead.

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12-17-2009 05:53 PM

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Dan Dogs
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

it would sure be nice to hunt two dogs and when they split tree..go to one dog hook a leash and have him follow you to the other dog..then hook him up on a leash, then have both of them follow me back to the truck!!lol maybe that is just wishful thinking..

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12-17-2009 06:01 PM

Okie Dawg
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You can buy a million books on how to make a dog heal on lead then off. I don't teach most of them a competitive heal anymore. I just teach them to stay with in a couple feet of me( better for the woods). It is easy and fast to teach too and I am getting lazy as I get older.

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12-17-2009 06:02 PM

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Lee Currens Jr.
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i have done it 2 differnt ways.tri- tronics dvd with a pup.
2 i would step on the lead and tell him heal either way works.
i can rember yrs ago bring rowdy,boomer and hobo out
on mules and never handling dog shouting the door to the
boxes when they got in.

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12-17-2009 06:04 PM

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Brettlil
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Registered: Oct 2009
Location: Travelers Rest, SC
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Well I never trained a dog to heal, but a old man taught me how to teach them to walk behind me when we are walkingm it was fairly simple and they caught on pretty quick. Just leash them up and grab a hickory switch and hold it in the same hand as the leash so they can see it. Every time they try to pass you, just bump them on the nose with it. Don't beat them or hit them hard on the nose, bump them with it. After awhile of doing this they should catch on easy. When my dogs start to get ahead I pick up a switch and they back off. Oh yea make a command word to assocaite this with, like "back off" or something like that. It makes things a lot easier instead of them idiots tryin to pull you through the woods. It was just so simple and fast. Maybe you could something like this to teach them to heal. I no dog trainer but this did wonders for me.

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12-17-2009 06:08 PM

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Dan Dogs
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
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i just want to be able to drop the leash and have them follow. i hate having two dogs on a leash and trying to walk crossways thru standing corn or thru multi flora rose..

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12-17-2009 06:34 PM

Clay Lautzenhiser
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Location: Lake Panasoffkee, Florida
Posts: 1116

Every dog I own or have owned has been broke to follow me out of the woods . I drop the lead and tell them to heal and they do. I taught them with a voice command and electronic correction when necessary. Even old dogs, with any sense, can be taught to do this. They keep following me even if they run across a track until I unsnap the leash.

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12-17-2009 07:19 PM

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Dan Dogs
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

how long did it take to get the older dogs follow??did you start working them around the yard or while you were hunting?

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12-17-2009 07:24 PM

brogy
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All it takes is a little repetition. My two dogs don't require a leash when I'm pleasure hunting alone. Add a strange dog or a nite hunt to it, and I have to use a lead.

It took me about 30 minutes to teach Sky. Simply put a leash on her and let it drag. Give the heel command just as you would on a lead, Everytime the dog gets a little distance ahead of you just step on the lead and again give the heel command. After a couple lessons of that, generally the dog gets to point. Sky will walk along behind me like she should, or off to the side and as soon as she thinks about wandering off I just tell her to heel and she resumes the position.

All of her littermates, 1/2 littermates and mother that I hunted with are the same way. No leash required.

Might use an e-collar if neccessary. Everytime they begin to wander give them a tickle to get they're attention and tell them to heel. Thats about all thats needed. I've had to do that as a refresher from time to time.

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12-17-2009 07:40 PM

brogy
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if it doesn't work... shoot the dog and look at seriously evaluating your choice of breeding stock.
I can't stand this rattle headed, tightly wound dogs. Eliminate them from the breeding pool.

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12-17-2009 07:41 PM

Dan Dogs
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

brogy, would yours heal walking to another dog split treed?

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12-17-2009 07:43 PM

Ron Ashbaugh
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Location: Mercer PA
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quote:
Originally posted by brogy
if it doesn't work... shoot the dog and look at seriously evaluating your choice of breeding stock.
I can't stand this rattle headed, tightly wound dogs. Eliminate them from the breeding pool.

Marc has a point. Between my dogs and others I have hunted with I have NEVER punished a dog more than for pulling on the lead and I have NEVER had it work.

Years ago my mom would occasionally hunt with me. She would be so mad at me working that dog over for pulling that she would beg me to walk the dog herself so that I would stop. That dog still pulls to this day. I have hurt my hands more than his head more times than one. That kind of stubborness is hard to take, but that sucker won't pull off the tree either....

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12-17-2009 07:46 PM

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Dan Dogs
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

quote:
Originally posted by brogy
if it doesn't work... shoot the dog and look at seriously evaluating your choice of breeding stock.
I can't stand this rattle headed, tightly wound dogs. Eliminate them from the breeding pool.

i would never evaluate my breeding stock on how good they heal,,thats a trainer problem!!LOL but i would evaluate my breeding stock if i couldn't get them to leave my side..this is why i'm asking so many questions,,i don't want to develope some wierd quirks that might screw a dog up and get in a habit of staying against my leg when it should be hunting..

Last edited by Dan Dogs on 12-17-2009 at 08:03 PM

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12-17-2009 07:57 PM

Matt Brabender
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Location: wisconsin
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That leading them around the building part works Dave. Just stay about a foot from the building and when they want to pass, do your thing. Weather it be a switch or the e-collar. It won't take long. I can even teach Wallenkamp's dogs this and you know how they are. LMAO.........good luck.

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12-17-2009 07:59 PM

Dan Dogs
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Brabender
That leading them around the building part works Dave. Just stay about a foot from the building and when they want to pass, do your thing. Weather it be a switch or the e-collar. It won't take long. I can even teach Wallenkamp's dogs this and you know how they are. LMAO.........good luck.

do you do this draging the leash? or with your leash in hand?? i can get my dogs to stay behind me..lol i just want to be hands free..

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12-17-2009 08:09 PM

Matt Brabender
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I start out with the leash in my hand.

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12-17-2009 09:22 PM

Clay Lautzenhiser
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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Panasoffkee, Florida
Posts: 1116

quote:
Originally posted by Dan Dogs
how long did it take to get the older dogs follow??did you start working them around the yard or while you were hunting?

I have a young blue dog that I am hunting for Kevin Weller. I have had him at my house for a week now. He learned the first night and has done it since. I snap the lead on him at the tree and tell him "come", once he starts with me I drop the lead and tell him to heel. I don't make him "heel" just stay behind and with me. It makes it a lot easier to get a rifle, coon, and dog out off waist deep, thick swamps.

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12-17-2009 10:09 PM

brogy
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Dave,

It depends on the situation as the whether mine would heel without lead to a split tree. Strange dog... probably not. If my 2 dogs were split... I'm sure I could get Sky to heel as I walked to Rocket. But it really isn't a situation I'd see happening because chances are, if my dogs are split, I'm going to recast the 1st one and send it on. If it covers the other one, that's a whole different lesson coming.

You're right... heeling is a training issue but if someone has made the efforts to train a dog to walk on a lead or heel without one and the dogs is too stupid to figure it out whether its because its too high strung or too coon crazy, I don't care.... that dog is an idiot and shouldn't reproduce.

When I was a kid my dog would drag me through the woods. Drove an older guy I hunted with crazy. He'd take my dog on the lead and put a switch to him but because I didn't reinforce it, it wasn't long the dog was back in the same habit. Now 15 years later, I've hunted his dog often and it is constantly pulling on the lead. I've seen that dog put the old guy on his face or back nearly every other time I hunt with them. When I hunt the dog, I take the lead and get a switch and put some distance between us and his owner. He doesn't pull me around.

Another buddy of mine has a 1/2 brother to Sky. Hardly ever puts a lead on him. He'll cut him from the kennel and the dog will run around the house and jump in the box. Sky is the same way. If they want to go hunting they will. If they just want to run, you wouldn't try it or you'd be spending 20 minutes chasing a dog around before you want to go hunting. His other dog though, isn't even lead broke and you have to pick it up to load it in box. Drives me nuts but it is because he hasn't ever taken 2 minutes to work on it.

A little repetition and a tiny bit of effort, the dog better get the hint pretty quick.

I don't care how talented a dog is in the woods. If it doesn't mind or have a disposition that makes me enjoy spending time with it, it can go down the road.

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12-17-2009 10:22 PM

Dan Dogs
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

i'm sure my dogs will train easy, they have alot of respect to the e-collar..my biggest concern was not having any major problems like coming in to me. and then not wanting to leave..i think by associating the training with a leash dragging would make better cense to the dog than not using a leash at all..can't waite to see how they respond..it will sure give all my dogs more time in the timber when it takes some of the work out of it.. thanks for the info..

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12-17-2009 10:29 PM

brogy
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You might be right. Sometimes I let them drag a leash, most the time I don't. I hate the idea of picking up my lead and its covered in cowsh#t and mud because I let them drag it through everything. Not to mention, they'll still get hung up from time to time. Sometimes on the stupidest things. Then I got walk my fat a$$ 20 yds back and get them because they got hung up on a little twig or a small rock.

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12-17-2009 10:41 PM

Dan Dogs
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Marc, i'm sure there are times when having a leash drag behind them will be a bad deal..we have alot of cow pastures to mud up a leash..

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12-17-2009 11:00 PM

SFWALKER
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The only time mine get put on a leash is before the first drop. All i do to train them is work with them on a leash first saying heel while making them walk behind my heel. Then walk them around without it on in the yard (or anywhere) and do the same thing. A flushing whip is useful to correct them when they get too far ahead or need correcting. I've never found it too difficult to get a dog to do this, and it sure is nice, especially when walking through thick stuff.

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12-17-2009 11:03 PM