Registered: Jun 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1734

WHEN YOUR SHOPPIN AROUND FOR THAT ONE MALE TO BREED TO YOUR TOP NOTCH BITCH...WHAT ARE YOU LOOKIN FOR...AND WHAT MAKES THE FINAL DECISION FOR YOU? STUDS ABILITY IN THE WOODS OR THE LINE AND BLOOD BEHIND THE STUD....OR BOTH.....

JUST CURIOUS AS THIS OTHER POST GOT ME THINKIN MAYBE IM WRONG IN THINKIN YOU BEST BE BREEDIN COONDOGS TO COONDOGS AND NOT JUST BREEDIN LINES....NOW DONT TAKE ME WRONG THE LINES ARE WHAT HAVE GIVIN US WHAT WE GOT TODAY AND I LOOK AT A DOGS LINES IF I BELIEVE HES A COONDOG FIRST....THEN I MAKE A DECISION....
DAN CAHOY

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DAKOTA BLUE KENNELS
HOME OF UKC PERFORMANCE SIRE
"DUAL CH. DAKOTA BLUE JAMMER"
4 WINS TOWARD GR NT
4 WINS TOWARD GR SH
AND REPRODUCIN!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Bolivia,NC
Posts: 605

I go by what I have seen and heard or heard by reliable sources. Names don't mean diddly to me......TCB

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: WILMER ALABAMA
Posts: 159

i look for coondog first and then check to see if off spring are doing anything. then i look for blood lines. i do believe its in the breeding. good nose good hunting hound hard treedog and also i like to see how dog behaves around his owner and other people.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Pa.
Posts: 132

I look for ability,honesty,smarts(show me once and I got it smarts),mouth,desire,and breed conformation.A hound needs to look,act and sound like a hound for me.Papers sell puppies but papers don't tree coon.Call me a skeptic,I read pedigrees like a work of fiction.I'll bet I'm right on occasion.Who knows.This modern DNA testing is a good tool to keep people honest though.
I don't care if the stud is registered as long as it can be.The current genepool of namedogs has been tapped and tapped again.The more obscure the studs line the better. I like it,it feels like untapped territory with endless possibility.You'd be suprised at the number of coondogs with an unknown history.The local shelter has a beautiful looking walcur pup(as walcurs go)right now.Her history is:given up by owner.Theres ways around the spay/neuter thing but like I said its a walcur.I'm not saying namedogs are bad,they've gotten us this far.I'm saying if the dog tied behind the trailer in Alabama is a houndy coon machine don't be afraid to take a chance.Anyway I think I've made my point on where I stand on the issue.

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destiny works itself out

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

I definitely agree with u, a dog has to be a coondog for me to breed to it, but they also have to have the lines as well......I wont breed to something that isnt bred well, or has things in its bloodlines, such as aggression, lack of hunt, lack of sense, nose, etc........but I would rather breed to just a nice dog that is bred to be much better, as I go by whats its parents were, and grand parents, etc......like I said, I would rather breed to that dog, than a super hound that aint much on the producing lines, or blood....now I woudl rather have both, lol, but if we coudl have everything we wanted, we woudl be spoiled, lol.......but coondog to coondog is the best, I do agree there, with good producing bloodlines makes it better....chief produced better than he was, warren will tell ya that......just my opinion......

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

I agree, I want to see the dog perform, then if he has the tools I'm looking for, I look at his lines....meaning did he come from a family of coon dogs, if his Sire & Dam are coon dogs, and their Sire's & Dam's were coon dogs all coming from a family (line) of coon dogs. I don't want to chance the breeding of the ONLY dog from an entire litter of culls just because he won big.

Give me a coon dog from coon dogs and if it complements my female, then give it a try, mouth, tree, speed, and most of all SMARTS, got to have a smart dog, that way it off sets my lack of !!

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Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: East Texas
Posts: 828

I look for a "total dog" with conformation and hunting ability, a good win record, and a proven producer of these traits. Also very important is an owner that will promote the dog and also give good references to prospective buyers of your puppies out of their dog, and also an owner that is selective in their breeding and doesn't allow everybody who can fork over their money to breed to that dog.

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Lynn Wilson Hill
Howling Hills Kennels
www.coonhoundcrew.com

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People may forget what you said, people may forget what you did, but they will never forget how you made them feel
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: OHIO
Posts: 962

i want the stud to be from a family of hounds proven to reproduce the type of dog i am looking for. i want to hunt with the best of his offspring, mainly to see if he is passing along the traits i am looking for to compliment my female.if its not already out there i dont think my chances are good of getting it either.finally if the females that have produced these pups have very similar traits and lineage as mine i am really going to feel confident breeding to him. in every successful line there have been crosses that have concentrated the traits that the breeder was looking for. i feel identifying and building on them will give me the best opportunity for success as well.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Richmond, Kentucky
Posts: 3747

What traits you folks are looking for in a stud dog......Can it be found in a Bluetick or any other dog ??? If in fact we could get what we wanted to breed to would it really be a success, and if so what chance would there be of a high percentage of good dogs coming from this real planned litter ???? I am confused as to what you folks are doing to better the breed or at least the one that are on this board. I myself have all I need here, and do not intend to ever become a breeder, and from the looks of the ones that post on here there is not a successful breeder sharing a lot of information as to what he has done to be a success. I only see one post person on here that will ever go down in history as a breeder, and one that will help the breed over the years. This person is hunting, and promoting the line of dogs the rest of you don't like.

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John M. Vaught

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

I watch different lines and dogs. If their pedigree interest me, I watch them harder. I listen to what people say or are not saying. If my interest are still high, than i try to arrange a hunt with the dog. Than if the dog shows me he has the tools than I move on to the final test. Hunt with as many offspring of the dog as possible from different females. Look closely at the similiarities. Those similiarities are likely the traits you can expect in your litter.

Just because a dog hunts well doesn't mean he can reproduce. Trust me when I say taking the extra time to hunt with a dog's offspring first is the most important thing you can do. If the dog has no offpring, then try to hunt with his siblings. Again, look for the similiarities.

Sure what I am saying takes longer and cost more, but if you look at a litter as being a two year committment of time and money it only makes sense. A little more spent up front is more times than not a better investment in the long run!!!!!!!!!!!

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

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Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

I don't need to see or hunt with the stud cause I won't be putting him in the woods night after night. What I want to see is his pups. As many as I can. If I think the blood will cross well with the female and his pups show me what I like in the woods, then that's the dog I want a pup out of.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

Hey Mr John V.........who is on this thread that we don't like??

Who said anything about being a breeder, the thread was about choosing a stud dog, most folks when picking a stud dog do so to raise a litter (Meaning One) to replace their personal stock or to offer a few to outside sources, but I personaly don't have 30 or 40 bitches to raise a mast crop of pups, and I don't think anyone on this board that I know of does either.

I, like you have all I need right here, am very happy with it, and continue to come along with a replacement now and then for my own personal needs. I have a couple of friends that wanted a pup and they have waited patiently for that pup, and I'm here to tell you if you thnk there is money to be made from raising a litter of pups, don't think so. At least not the way I do it, might pay for all the food, shots, and wormings, but that is about it !! LOL

So I still can't figure who you think we don't like??? Last time I looked we are free to choose what we drive, eat, and even what we like to hunt, and as for sharing information, I think those who posted about "what they look for, desire, and want" is telling everyone what they want in a coon dog.

Successful breeder's ?? I guess it depends on your definition of success. Is it 1 or 2 dogs making it out of a mast crop of 30 or 40 pups or 5 or 6 pups making it out of 1 litter. Everyone has their own standards, just depends on how high you set your's can you then determine what you can consider successful.

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1734

THE DAY YOU ACTUALLY SAY SOMETHIN ON HERE THAT ACTUALLY HAS SOME THOUGHT AND INTELLIGENCE BEHIND IT OTHER THAN DAVE DEAN THIS AND HAMMER LINE THAT, THEN MAYBE ILL TAKE WHAT YOU SAY SERIOUS....BY THE WAY SOMETHIN I BEEN MEANIN TO ASK YOU, YOU WOULDNT HAPPEN TO BE DAVE DEANS SON. OR ARE YOU OUT OF HAMMER 3? JUST CURIOUS.

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DAKOTA BLUE KENNELS
HOME OF UKC PERFORMANCE SIRE
"DUAL CH. DAKOTA BLUE JAMMER"
4 WINS TOWARD GR NT
4 WINS TOWARD GR SH
AND REPRODUCIN!!

Last edited by DAN CAHOY on 08-16-2003 at 03:18 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

Usually, something initially about a stud gets my attention. Maybe I hunted with him or his offspring, saw his pedigree, or maybe it was his hunt wins.

After that, I will look a little deeper.

I'll want to check out his offspring, siblings, half siblings, aunts and uncles and go hunting with as many of them as possible and check out as many of them over the phone as I can. A word of caution, every dog can have a bad night and there will always be someoen that will be negative about a dog, but I look for the trend. Too many "bad nights" and too many folks that don't like a dog and he will be scratched from my list.

I also want to hunt with the dog if at all possible. Yes, you get what the dog reproduces, not the dog himself but since I'm a coonhunter and any stud I breed to will be a coondog, I sure don't mind to go coonhunting before doing something as important as picking a stud. A trip to the woods with this stud dog will be well worth my time, if the stud owner will take me.

If I am comparing two studs with similar reproducing abilty, I will evaluate their reproducing based on the females they bred. A dog that breeds a bunch of top females BETTER have some good pups on the ground. A dog that has bred alot of average females and STILL has some good pups on the ground, is in my mind, superior to the one that has bred the top females.

The dog must be a coondog owned by a coonhunter. This will almost always mean the dog will be a NtCh or better. I will take into consideration the handling expertise and the ability of the handler, as far as hunt wins. I won't consider breeding to a dog owned by what I have found out to be a dishonest person, period, no matter what. Some folks will get the most out of a dog in competition and some guys will hold their dog back in competition and still do their share of winning. I identify with the latter, lol. Hunt wins where the dog dominated a cast and hunt wins a long ways from home are a plus, it shows the dog has one thing on his mind.

I have a whole list of personal likes and dislikes in a dog I will check out. I will want his strengths and weaknesses to match up well with those of my female. Any stud or female owner who says their dog has no weaknesses either doesn't know or is lying and I will scratch them from my list. I want a dog that goes hunting, strikes quick, moves any kind of track at any time of year better than most dogs, locates quickly and accurately and is a classy, hard, steady, stay put treedog. A loud enough mouth to hear, a unique mouth, a distinctive locate, intelligence enough to learn what they weren't born with, and a good looking, well put together hound are all important, too. My requirements go on, but I will stop, lol.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1076

I just rolled the dice last time.
I don't know anything about the male I bred to.
Just wanted to try something different.
The litter is about 1-1/2 now.
The one I kept is different that's for sure, I think she'll be OK.

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bruce ordway

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: greensburg,ky.
Posts: 3364

well I believe you should look at what the pups are doing as well as the bloodline and if he was out of a good cross and if the owner is promoting him or a pup out of him or can give you names of people hunting pups out of him

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on fire/tree dogs

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 84

This is the way I look at it now. I didnt used to. MY opinion on this has changed greatly the last few years. I dont care how good a dog is, I dont care if he trees everything in the woods and has won 10 world championships and has every tool a coondog could possibly possess with the best mouth ever on a dog............................... my question is this....... what did his littermates do?????? what did his sire and dam do?????? what did there brothers and sisters do?????? what does this bloodline tend to reproduce??????? What has this dog reproduced in the past?????? Is he linebred and doubled up on a great stud dog or moma dog??????? Was he a fluke or are all the dogs in his family coondogs???????????? Hard lessons learned. Wont be soon forgotten. Just my opinion.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

I can't really add anything to what has already been said. In short, I want to breed to a coon dog from a litter of coon dogs from a family of coon dogs that produces coon dogs.

However, every top stud was bred to the first time by somebody.

I am kind of proud that I bred the first female ever bred to Gr. Nt. Ch. Ch. Uchtman's Blue Albert. He had everything I wanted in a stud, ability wise, and came from a family of reproducers, so I took a chance. Time has proven that it was a good move.

I have two offspring of his tied up at my house now.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Advance, MO
Posts: 77

They have to be the kind of dog I like before they even get a look. However, if the blood isn't behind them I won't breed to them. Sometimes a dog is a good dog, but he is a fluke. If the blood isn't there then there is a good chance in not getting a very high percentage of dogs that have the ability.

In other words they have to be both a coondog, and bred the way that I like. The way I look at it once you put that breeding in you can never take it out (without just scrapping that entire cross), and it will influence your pups for generations to come.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, Ks
Posts: 5398

I look for a balanced hound. A smart hound, tree pressure, bawl track/chop tree, loud, looks (why breed to an ugly dog), tough hard going hound and he must be able to drift and make a coon climb on a track. A pedigree should be packed full of coondogs. All good hounds will reproduce a decent pup now and then.

Most top studs get their recognition through two or three crosses that have really worked. Not the crosses that didn't and the pups sent to the cull pen. When breeders hit on a cross they just keep going back to the well.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

I read through the responses to this post and I want to add this as it has been lightly touched upon by a few of the responses.

One of the first things that you must do when looking for a stud is be open and honest about the female that you are going to breed. You must first understand every weakness in her, what is it that you want to improve upon, or to augment?

Once you have properly evaluated the female, and know which direction you want to go with the litter, then and only then should you start shopping for a stud.

Having done that I want to hunt with the stud, and as many of his offspring from similar breedings. If I am breeding according to a blood line, I want to look at his offspring from matings where the female is related to mine. I evaluate the studs strenghts and weakensses, realizing that in any line breeding (breeding related dogs) the goal is to accentuate the positives and neutrilze the negatives......if they both have the same weakness then I have to go back to the drawing board.

Papers don't tree coon, but if you simply compare abilities, you increase your chances of success on any particular breeding.

(P.S. There are a whole lot of GREAT coon hounds out there without titles......)

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

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