Registered: Jan 2004
Location: stilwell, Oklahoma
Posts: 1175

how do you know if your dog has treed a lay up coon, how does your dog act when he does it, my personal experiance with my own dog is when i am rig hunting him and he barks, when you stop the truck, if he goes right to the tree and falls treed, i think this was a lay-up, other times he will start on track before he trees. that is my definition. or if he is out hunting and just falls treed, i think that is a lay-up. what are your definitions.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

A true layup dog will tree coons off the wind currents when the coon may have never been on the ground, or when he has been laying up so long there is no track left.

You will often see these dogs standing on their hind legs with their head in the air working the wind, and then they will get it dialed in and fall treed.

Rigging coons is a different deal than just a pure layup dog, though there is some overlapping. They can sure smell a layup from the box sometimes, but sometimes when they strike from the rig and just fall treed, it may be because there was just a hot coon right there and they don't have to track, just locate it and tree.

True layup dogs aren't common in my experience. I have hunted with some, but have never owned a dog that was real good at it.

Some people mistakenly confuse layup ability with having a rough nose. A buddy of mine has a dog that is a layup artist. He will tree coons occasionally that other dogs can't tree on. However, my dog will work tracks his can't smell.

Layup ability is a knack, a specialized skill. It is not a matter ofhaving a "better nose" as I have heard some people say.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: stilwell, Oklahoma
Posts: 1175

do you think the winding ability is passed on from parent to pup, as we have a 31/2 month old pup that is showing her ability to wind coons already, and she is out of the walker dog that does do this quite often


also how long do you think it is before the coon scent leaves the ground after a coon goes up a tree, i know weather conditions have a lot to do with this.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

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Originally posted by huntingnick
do you think the winding ability is passed on from parent to pup, as we have a 31/2 month old pup that is showing her ability to wind coons already, and she is out of the walker dog that does do this quite often


also how long do you think it is before the coon scent leaves the ground after a coon goes up a tree, i know weather conditions have a lot to do with this.

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: minnesota
Posts: 1561

i have a male here that one nite after hunting we were sitting on the tail gate and he started wagging his tail really fast looking off over into the timber smelling the air and sure as **** there was a coon sitting up about 70 yards away, cut him he ran in there no barking on track messed around at the bottom of the tree for a sec then started treeing i thought i was pretty cool myself

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Registered: Sep 2005
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I don't think the nose is that much different on dogs and most dogs that tree layups are as a rule are poor track dogs, most layup dogs are to sorry to hustle a track and don't have what it takes to be a top dog and they have found that it is easier to just trot around with their head up and get treed.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: stilwell, Oklahoma
Posts: 1175

another questions John

in your experinece have you seen that the more intelligent dogs seem to be the ones that can wind coons and then know what to do about it.

also i have noticed this in both bird dogs and coon dogs, certain dogs seem to know where to look for the game they are after, and don't waste their time hunting ground that doesn't hold game, and again this seems to be the more intelligent dogs.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

quote:

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Originally posted by Voyd Cannon
I don't think the nose is that much different on dogs and most dogs that tree layups are as a rule are poor track dogs, most layup dogs are to sorry to hustle a track and don't have what it takes to be a top dog and they have found that it is easier to just trot around with their head up and get treed.

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lol...I guess thats one way to look at it...

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: minnesota
Posts: 1561

i think sackett jr was very good at lay ups from what my grandpa told me my dog can run a track good voyd so maybe he isnt a lay up dog just gets lucky about once a month lol

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Voyd, I would have to disagree with your statement based on personal experience.

I have only owned one dog that was what I would call a lay up dog (several that could occasionally but only one that did it regularly). She was by far the best track dog I have ever owned and regularly treed so far in front of other good dogs as to make them look foolish (and I do mean other good dogs). It didn't matter, old bad track, swamps, mountains, heavy frost, wet, fog, she made them all look easy, and on top of that she could lay them up too.

She had faults in other areas, don't want you to think I believe she walked on water or anything, but hustle, tracking ability, lay up ability and brains she was very strong on.

She could have been the exception cause she was the only true lay up dog I have ever owned or even have been around that much, but she surely wasn't anything like you described your experiences with lay up dogs.

Of course I realize that you could be correct in your analysis because one experience doesn't really mean anything when looking at the over all pattern. Just giving you my experience.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: stilwell, Oklahoma
Posts: 1175

voyd the dog that we have is a very good track dog, and sure not lazy, leaves the chain kicking gravels, id guess when he does have a lay-up is about 5% of the time, but does have this ability, most of the time when he winds a coon it will be a track not a lay-up, the only time i am sure it is a lay-up ( or pretty sure), is when he winds from back of truck or on the chain when being lead.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 974

guys I said most dogs, not all. Most coon that these so called layup dogs tree aren't layups, you're just hunting a lazy dog that don't have the ability to hustle a coon hard enough to tree it, these kind aren't hard to find,,,,,,,,,,,,, many dogs won't open on track until they have straighten out and if their coon is up right there they just fall treed.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location:
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Rip, your dog doesn't fall in the catergory that I'm talking about.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

No such thing as a layup ... the dog is either choosing to use wind currents and ignore the track .... the dog has T-boned a track of any length near the tree .. or the dog is open only when the dog and coon are both running so on tracks that said dog trails it sounds like a layup.


Turn loose a cold nosed hound behind those layup dogs and you will see what is going on.

Or .... picture any top notch hound you have hunted with that you knew opened good but didn't tree layups . If you can't remember seeing those layed up coon on the way to that non-layup dog then they mustn't exist.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

All we can go on is our experiences. And to be honest, most of the layup dogs I've hunted with weren't great track dogs. Your mileage may vary.

The hard going track driving dogs I've hunted have all bypassed a few coon that a slower, more methodical hunting dog could go along behind and find occasionally.
I don't prefer that kind of dog.

It bothers me more to have one tree coons in front of my dog than behind it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

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Originally posted by huntingnick
another questions John

in your experinece have you seen that the more intelligent dogs seem to be the ones that can wind coons and then know what to do about it.

also i have noticed this in both bird dogs and coon dogs, certain dogs seem to know where to look for the game they are after, and don't waste their time hunting ground that doesn't hold game, and again this seems to be the more intelligent dogs.

---

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 974

why is it that most breeders that luck into a real top layup dog always seem to either birdhunt or have a neighbor that does? this is an unsolved mystery to me.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: stilwell, Oklahoma
Posts: 1175

what is the difinition of a lay-up coon, how long do you think that coon has been in the tree without touching the ground, justin makes a good point, when the dog has winded a coon maybe the smell is so strong that it doesn;t have to trail to know where the coon is, the times that i have thought he found a lay-up will be within 200 yards of first winding it, and if you had turned a slower dog loose probably would have worked the trail.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: stilwell, Oklahoma
Posts: 1175

i dont know voyd

maybe my old nailor, tri-color tom tom bred dog has a little shorthair in it(not trying to run down either dog)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

Think about this .... will any coon sit on a limb for so long that a good bloodhound wouldn't smell his track on the ground ? I'd guess that coon would have to sit in that same tree for several days before that happened .

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 437

No one has ever turned loose a couple good track dogs, heard a good race and on the way to the tree shine a couple coons sitting up 100 yards from the truck?

Some dogs need a track to make a tree. Some don't. I don't think a lay-up dog is lazy or better or worse than a track dog. Some of them just seem to go where the coon is and tell you about it, without needing a track to make sure.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location:
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quote:

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Originally posted by huntingnick
i dont know voyd

maybe my old nailor, tri-color tom tom bred dog has a little shorthair in it(not trying to run down either dog)

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location:
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quote:

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Originally posted by bulkyker
No one has ever turned loose a couple good track dogs, heard a good race and on the way to the tree shine a couple coons sitting up 100 yards from the truck?

Some dogs need a track to make a tree. Some don't. I don't think a lay-up dog is lazy or better or worse than a track dog. Some of them just seem to go where the coon is and tell you about it, without needing a track to make sure.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: stilwell, Oklahoma
Posts: 1175

you get a lot of information when you ask a question on this board, some of it good, some of it bad, but interesting to say the least,

always in search of a better dog, if i ever find that prefect dog will probably loose interest in the sport, why try if you can't improve.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

Sheep's coondog terminology dictionary:

1. Lay up dog:
Noun: animal of the hunting dog species that is capable of winding a coon in the air that has left absolutly no scent on the ground whatsoever. Oftentimes while other dogs wonder around woods with no clue of a coon in the area.
Also: example: .......... see Grand nite champion CHOPPIN AXE

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