Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 20

just looking at all the crosses being made today just wandering if anyone has done a mother son cross

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Beaver Springs, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3316

Not sure if this will help or not. I was given a Pug that is the result of a mother/son cross. The boy ain't right! Off in the head and has a walking problem. They thought he had water on the brain but the vet said no, he is just slow. Well slow is a nice word for 'Dumb as a box of Rocks!' He has an uncontrolable bladder problem, piddles non stop, if he rolls onto his back, he is like a turtle, can't get up. I'm starting to think he is untrainable. He is 4 mos. old and is about on a 7 wk. old puppy level. I guess the rest of the kitter was fine, he is just the pup that got all the bad genes. The one that has all the undesireable traits that can crop up in a close breeding. This was just my experience with a mother/son cross, I'm sure there is good one's out there.

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: NEBRASKA
Posts: 589

personally its too close for me I had got a pup out of a blood line I am not going to say. But he ended up havein one nut. Genetics issues. But then again I am no expert on it. I wont do it thats for sure the closest I will ever line breed is a great grand sire to a great grand dam. Even this cross could have issues as well but its a lot further away than mother son crosses. Just my 2 cents.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

I have trained and hunted half brother X sister, niece X nephew, and father X daughter....No health issues,intelligence issues or any other unusual problems.

The only way you would know is by looking at the papers.

Dont let emotions and wives tales run wild with your imagination..

Its not magic, its not immoral, its just another breeding tool.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

Get yourself a bloodlines copy that has Dave Deans Hammer 18 pedigree in it. Study the pedigree.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

I cant figure it out. There are literally dozens of big name breeders that cross tight all the time. You boys need to call Dave Dean, Robert Kemmer and some of them old boys that have been inbreeding for decades. Theyll tell you good and bad.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 20

tell me about the pedigree

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: NEBRASKA
Posts: 589

Why do you think I dont have a dave dean dog. yeah some of his dogs are way back in 2 of my dogs ped but not right on top of each other. I said that I would never do it. As far as wifes tales go I did try it and I ended up with a one nut dog. I refuse to have defects like this in any of my blood lines.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Beaver Springs, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3316

Having only 1 testicle can be had in an out cross too. It is a reccessive gene and when you put 2 reccessives together, your gonna end up with this problem. I had a total out cross bluetick that had no testicles, I won't mention the bloodlines, but if the Hammer line carries it, then this other line must of carried it, because I ended up with a nutless wonder!

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: salt rock w.v
Posts: 934

GO FOR IT

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

quote:

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Originally posted by EnglishBabe
Not sure if this will help or not. I was given a Pug that is the result of a mother/son cross. The boy ain't right! Off in the head and has a walking problem. They thought he had water on the brain but the vet said no, he is just slow. Well slow is a nice word for 'Dumb as a box of Rocks!' He has an uncontrolable bladder problem, piddles non stop, if he rolls onto his back, he is like a turtle, can't get up. I'm starting to think he is untrainable. He is 4 mos. old and is about on a 7 wk. old puppy level. I guess the rest of the kitter was fine, he is just the pup that got all the bad genes. The one that has all the undesireable traits that can crop up in a close breeding. This was just my experience with a mother/son cross, I'm sure there is good one's out there.

---

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
Posts: 540

Ticken time bomb, Thats fine breed how you want its a free country, but i'll say this, alot of the "vaughn" guys dropped the ball by not tightening up the line. Everytime you outcross you cut your line in half. I know guys that line breed and outcross that get goofy stuff all the time.I dont go for the garbage that Vaughn never inbred cause he did. One of the best crosses he ever made in his life, Ark Blue 2 and vaughns fly had ole ark blue 3 times in 3 gen. Thats alot of uptight jocasse valley blood. Also he was breeding daughters of mack back on macks brother Bawler 3. The guys who are serious are gonna do it from time to time. the guys that are scared of it are gonna use it from someone else and then knock it.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 2

i don't see anything wrong with it. I did a mother-son cross this last summer and haven't started the pup i kept yet but nothing physically or mentally wrong, why outcross to something else if you like what you already have and want to keep those traits going. i hunt patterdales as well and did a half brother-half sister cross this summer. Next breeding on my pat female i believe i will go directly back to her brother. I only breed for dogs to hunt and don't breed but only when i need dogs, not to make money, so this is just my opinion . Inbreeding has been going on a long time in livestock, and look what some of those breeders are getting for a good bull. If you have good dogs without many flaws and the mother and son share the same hunting qualities that you like then i would try it. I thought people wouldn't want the pups but i got them all sold and no one ever cared about the inbreeding.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 369

i have a fem out of a litter mate brother/ sister cross . made very nice dogs. it only concentrates what is already there. good or bad. cull the bad ones keep the good ones. john wick had a story in the cooner last year about how he crossed littermate walkers together for several generations. each one getting better.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Beaver Springs, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3316

quote:

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Originally posted by wildbill
but its a pug!!! lapdog

they arent bred for smarts,ect.,lol,,just $$$$$$$$$$,,lol

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Guys, inbreeding does NOT increase genetic faults, it just don't.

It's an old wives tale.

If you only inbred for many, many generations it COULD increase the chance of a new genetic mutation by 8-10%, and that's after many generations.

That's the science behind it.

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Georgetown, S.C.
Posts: 523

Should produce pups more like the mother.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1745

Yep, I've DONE IT.
PM me ,if you would like to discusse it.

"kooner" has got a good handle on "IT" as well.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 263

I have seen some close crosses that were pure bombs and I have seen some with some birth defects its hit or miss. I personally wouldn't breed up close but I did make a father/daughter beagle cross once and at 5 months old the female was one of the best hounds in these parts, and the male was a little slower learner but ended up just a touch better than the female. They had incredible hunt power, good mouths, and knew how to jump a rabbit just perfect...so I know results can be outstanding doing this.

I also did this once after and when the beagle pups were born their heads were huge and they were big pups and didnt look right to me but as time passed they ended up looking like a normal beagle. I will add to that by saying they made some tough hounds with all the grit one person could take. I raised 3 of them and they would run rabbits all up and down my road.

Could be a good cross but, personally, its one i wouldn't make with coonhounds. I would find me a well balanced stud and have my female bred to it.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

A PUG!!!!!!!!!!! They don't count! They are messed up to begin with.

As already mentioned inbreeding is a tool to achieve a specific goal. If you aren't going to use the tool properly, then you should not. Besides that ya can't blame a tool for it's improper use.

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