Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

ok what breed of dog gets scratch the most for fighting ??

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Stanardsville,VA
Posts: 233

Walkers,but that's only because thats the majority in the comp. hunts.

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Leon,Kansas
Posts: 256

there isnt just one breed there are mean dogs in every breed ive seen em all get scratched

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Pinckneyville, IL
Posts: 959

all breeds fight but not all dogs fight

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

i know all breeds fight just wondering which one is scratch the most.. and i would say walkers too do to the fact there are more of them in hunts. but i have been known to be wrong,or is it the ones we dont see to much at the hunts are as a breed much more ill and they just wont hunt them..

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Two Rivers WI
Posts: 996

Careful on the breed bashing there.

ALL dogs are capable of fighting but like it's been said Walkers are more prevalent so their numbers are higher. Just because a BREED isn't as popular and it's numbers aren't as high in comp hunts doesn't mean they're meaner or more prone to fight.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3970

I would Guess Blueticks, the meanest Hounds I ever saw were blueticks.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

it can't be blue ticks because they cant catch them walkers.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Virginia
Posts: 374

All breeds have their mean ones period.

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

there is no breed bashing . not as of yet but this is a fair ? looking for answers i am sure ukc has a record of it some where or they could fiq it out some day when they have nothing to do after all the reg gets done and the hunt records get filed and all the phone calls get answerd you know in there free time ..lol... just kiding i know they ahve way to much going on to do such a thing...

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Notice how quick the Walker folks are to point out on this thread that the only reason more Walkers are SFF is because there are alot more of them being hunted in the hunts and that the off breeds have mean dogs too.

I agree with this.

BUT you never hear this when it is mentioned in regards to hunt wins and they laugh at it when the "off breed" owners point out cast win percentage.

Well you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If the Walkers win just cause they are a better breed then they are scratched more cause they are a meaner breed.

If they are scratched more cause they are more of them, then they win more cause they have a huge numbers advantage.

Take your pick, but don't try and go back and forth when it makes the Walkers look better LMBO.

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: n.e. ohio
Posts: 2038

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rip
Notice how quick the Walker folks are to point out on this thread that the only reason more Walkers are SFF is because there are alot more of them being hunted in the hunts and that the off breeds have mean dogs too.

I agree with this.

BUT you never hear this when it is mentioned in regards to hunt wins and they laugh at it when the "off breed" owners point out cast win percentage.

Well you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If the Walkers win just cause they are a better breed then they are scratched more cause they are a meaner breed.

If they are scratched more cause they are more of them, then they win more cause they have a huge numbers advantage.

Take your pick, but don't try and go back and forth when it makes the Walkers look better LMBO.

---

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

good post there rip,,,,,,,, i like it a lot.......

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3314

As usual, Rip says it truthfully and well.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
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Well, Im going to go ahead and disagree with Rip...

Over agression at the tree is a random occurance as far as breeds are concenred.

Consistant winners are not so random.IMO

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Josh, which is it?


You can't have it both ways. It's the exact same logic applied to each one.

It's an either or thing, not a "both".

Cast win percentage is a much better tool than overall number of wins due to saturation. If there are only red dogs entered then a Walker can't win, but by a walker hunters logic becasue all red dogs won they are better than the walkers even though none were entered.

Same here. Walkers are scratched more than others for fighting. Either it's because there are more of them, or because they are meaner one of the two.

The same logic applies to number of wins, either it's because there are more of them or because they are better.

You can't have it both ways, if you say they are scratched more because there are more of them then you have to also admit that they win more cause there's more of them.

The opposite is also true, if you say they are better cause they win more then you have to admit that they are meaner cause they are scratched more.

Bottom line is the only objective way to compare breeds is percentage, and even that is flawed. I would bet if you checked the percentage of any breed SFF it would be close to the same, just like for wins.

I know it kills the walker folks to admit that numbers play a big part, but its been proven over and over again when cast win percentages are computed.

If you say percentage isn't valid for wins, then it isn't valid for meanness either. LOL.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
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My guess would be the same breed thats WON the most WORLD HUNTS!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

I dont believe hunts are won randomly.....Overpowering dogs that win consistantly while they can exist in every breed, for some reason tend to be ti-colored more often than not.

Im sure walkers make more mistakes in hunts than all other breeds combined, does this make other dogs higher quality?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Well Walkers don't win the majority of the spots at the breed days of the other breeds, but there are some there hunting. Does that mean for that weekend the other breeds were just better than every walker?

It takes a good dog in the right situation to win usually.

But, if one breed has 50 entered and one has 1 entered which one does the odds favor?

Tell ya what, lets put 1000 bucks a piece in a poole and draw a number for the winner. I have 70 of the numbers and you can have 30 of them. Blind draw. I'll do that with you all night, whatdya say?

I've won hunts when I was the only off breed dog there 30 walkers and one off breed, but at that particular hunt the odds were against a black dog to win, and they were against the red dogs, blue dogs, plotts cause there were ZERO of them.

Put it like this, if at a particular hunt, say the Winter Classic, in order for them to be considered a better breed they would have to win a significant number of casts MORE than their average. In other words if they made up 60% of the entrys they would have to win 90% of the casts to be statistically significant, maybe more.

Look up P values and try to learn about them to understand how big an advantage numbers are. If you have a P value of 0.05 that means there is still a 5 percent chance that the result was strictly due to random chance. That's what is used as the cutoff to prove something statistically.

I've got news for you. The cast win percentages have been figgured year after year and it is very rare that there is much difference at all. Matter of fact the "off breeds" usually do better, in other words you had a better chance of being a cast winner if you were leading an "off breed" than if you were leading a walker (15% of the walkers won their cast 30% of the black dogs won their cast etc).

Numbers are a huge, huge advantage.

By the same token I also believe the only reason there are more slick treeing walkers/ill/poor mouthed/losing is because there are more of them as well. The percentage isn't that much different.

It still takes a good dog to win most of the time, but the other breeds are able to dominate their breed hunts due to numbers as well. You can see that most every breed days, doesn't mean that they suddenly got better, it means they had the numbers advantage.

Any particular dog can beat the odds, as a matter of fact there can only be one winner so every time a dog wins it "beats the odds" so to speak, it's just easier for a particular breed to claim the top spot if they have more entrys.

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Last edited by Rip on 02-07-2009 at 07:39 PM

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: bainbridge ny
Posts: 2589

due to the higher numer od walkers being hunted it's safe to say along with the winning percentage also there is more losers also

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location: Upper Midwest
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Clover bred dogs

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

My Dad told me once, "numbers are like loose women, you can do anying you want with them".

If it makes you sleep better to believe walkers win more through sheer numbers, have at it.

If you want to believe walkers loose more through sheer numbers, have at that too.

I think Dad is smarter than I used to think...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Or maybe it helps someone feel better about themselves to say numbers have everything to do with their breed having more ill dogs/poor dogs/sick treeing dogs.

But for anything good the numbers don't matter at all.

LMBOMA

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

Rather that talk numbers and percentages, lets have a hunt.

A hunt where cast winners keep advancing untill a winner becomes evident....Oh wait, we already do that...I believe its called a world hunt or somthing like that.

LMBO...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Like I said, any time you want to put up a grand a piece and draw numbers with me having 70 numbers to your 30 we will do it all night.

If numbers don't matter then why don't you jump all over that?

Something tells me I won't have any takers on that, and rightfully so.

If you are honest with yourself and understand odds in any way shape form or fashion you have to realize that the numbers do matter.

Of course, as many people that play the lottery every day I guess people really DON'T understand odds.

LOL.

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