Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

How many of you remember when the old school hunters did not want a registered dog. They thought all registered dogs were trash running, squealy mouthed, hot nosed, slick treeing idiots.
As a matter of fact, around here they didn't even call them registered dogs. They called them " Papered Dogs." Not a walker, bluetick, english, plott, redbone, or black and tan.....just a papered dog.

You could tell if he was a good tree dog, or track dog by the shape of his head, or the number of hairs on it's muzzel. You could tell if it was going to be mean by the kind of tail they had, and the way they carried it. You could tell if it was going to be trashy by the way the tail was made; slick tail or flag tail. They looked at their mouth to inspect the color of their tongue, or the kind of feet they had. They could tell a lot about a dog by the kind of hair they had; fine or course. Everything meant something. I didn't believe in it then, and I still don't, but you could not tell the old timers it was not true.

Good crosses were not determined by strains, or bloodlines, but by breeds. For example: Bluetick X Black'n tan was considered to be a good cross. I heard them say if you really wanted a good dog get a Redbone X Walker, or Walker X English. I'm sure you remember the July hounds. I had a little female named Judy. She had a little of everything in her, and would tree every coon she struck. You saw a coon, or a den. That is not sensationalizing the good old days; just facts.

I'm just rambling, and I just rambled out.


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Registered: May 2006
Location: northeast ohio
Posts: 1309

MY DAD'S LAST DOG WAS A BLACK N TAN BLACK LAB MIXED. HE WAS A BIG 80 LB SOLID BLACK DOG WITH REAL LONG EARS AND WAS A COONDOG. NOBODY CARED TO HAVE PAPERS BACK IN THE PRE 90'S AROUND HERE AS LONG AS THEY COULD KILL COON WITH THEM.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: south carolina
Posts: 212

Everybody likes something different I guess but as for me I dont care if the dog has papers or not and I dont care if the dog has any championship titles either. What I do care about is will the dog hunt and tree and have the coon.

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Craig, I can remember the late 60's-70's when my dad was hunting hard. He always hunted a grade dog simply because that was what was out there. I can't ever remember anyone caring if a dog was reg or not because nobody around here hunted in anything that required a reg dog. Most guys wouldn't pay to register them even if they had papers. It wasn't that they thought anything bad about a papered dog, they just didn't have any reason to paper them.

terra.....I never much cared if a dog was titled or not either, not even my own. What I DO care about is the challenge of winning those titles. Once they are won, they don't have much meaning. That is why I have never kept many of the dogs I titled.

Last edited by on 12-07-2008 at 03:53 PM

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: Louisa, Va
Posts: 6

Good papers dont mean that,that dogs going to tree a coon,they help I suppose but, seems to me that some folks thinks if a dogs got good blood his good coon stock and they can sell him for some crazy $amount. If that dog wants to hunt coon he will if not he's ganna run what ever, kinda like people! But one things for sure some of these prices on these hounds are crazy! Im like you, I could care less if a dogs a champ or not as long as it trees a coon......... Its all about having a good hunt with good honist people and good hounds

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Cutler, Il.
Posts: 1631

I'll tell you a little about how it was around here, way back when the coonhound was going through all of the changes from a GRADE/CUR dog to the Registered stage.

The Redbone hound was what most people refered to as HIGH YELLOW with a white spot on the front of their chest. Then the bench show people wanted a darker red dog, without the white spot. I'm not sure where they went to outcross to get the darker red, but thats when the redbones started to fall behind the other breeds in the woods. This was from about the late 40's into the 60's.

The Black & Tan hound was not the DARK DOG that we know today. They were refered to as HIGH TAN. The TAN went up higher on the shoulders & hips & were not a tall dog like todays B&T are. They too wanted a darker dog for the bench shows & they started to fall behind in the woods, as did the Redbones. This also was about the same time frame as the Redbones change.

The Plott hound was a fairly hot commodity around here in the 50's & 60's. They absolutely didn't want a BUCKSKIN, & they had to have BRINDLE on them somewhere, just enough to say that there was some BROWN. One of the Plott's that I owned you had to lay him on his back & there was a little spot of BRINDLE up in the crease of one back leg. I sold him to Dale Brandenburger as a Nt. Ch. & about 3 months after I sold him, he placed 3rd in the Nt. Ch. Class at Autumn Oaks. He was an excellent tree dog, but one of the worst track dogs that I ever owned. One of the big negatives about the Plott hound was their CHOP MOUTH. The standing joke around here was that when a Plott opened on track everyone would shut their light off, because they thought that they were close to somebodies house & their house dog was barking. They too wanted to change the preception of the Plott hound. One well known plott of that time was SUPPOSEDLY out of a big open spotted single Reg. Walker dog. I do know that, that dog had longer ears & a bawl mouth, that other Plott's didn't have.

The English, Blueticks, & Walkers, was the MELTING POT of just about everything, NON-HOUND INCLUDED. I think it was in the 60's that the REDTICK PEOPLE wanted to break off from the English Breed as did the Bluetick & Walker breeders did. At that time there were an awful lot of RINGNECK Walkers around here. they were considered the better dogs of the Walker breed because they had more tree in them & less FOX HOUND BLOOD. There is a strain of Blueticks today that still shows Walker color traits. The walker breeders were not afraid to outcross on anything that would improve their breed in the woods. As an example, their is one Walker dog that is still talked about today that went back to a COLLIE DOG. Another STILL FAMOUS dog was MEANER THAN A GUT SHOT JUNK YARD DOG, THEY HAD TO WATCH HIM CLOSE, EVEN WHEN HAULING HIM WITH A FEMALE DOG. But IMO, the late 40's up until recently is when the Walker breed separated from the other breeds, some of the other breeds went the BENCH SHOW ROUTE, & some went the COON TREEING ROUTE.


My dad had a big PACK of fox hounds also. He had Walkers, July Trigg, & a couple of Birdsongs. He gradually fazed the others out & went straight Walker fox hounds. Had one that caught 3 fox on the ground at a 2 day hunt down in Kentucky. That sucker could MORTALITY FLY ON A FOX TRACK. After the fox was jumped he ran by body scent, with his head up, & we seen him at times 20-30 feet downwind of where the fox went through, just running to catch, all of the time. The closer he got to catching the fox the more silent he got.

Dad also had 2 dogs that we could coon & possum hunt them at night, then take them fox hunting in the morning, & if we could catch them off of the fox, we could rabbit hunt them in the afternoon.

Sorry for this being so long, but that was how things were around here when I was growing up.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

back in the late 70's i had a half black tan and blue tick female that i had in 38 grade hunt and i won all 38, tried to get her single registerd as a black tan but the man that was doing it then said she had to much wite on her toes.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: NW FL
Posts: 334

My dad had a big PACK of fox hounds also. He had Walkers, July Trigg, & a couple of Birdsongs. He gradually fazed the others out & went straight Walker fox hounds. Had one that caught 3 fox on the ground at a 2 day hunt down in Kentucky. That sucker could MORTALITY FLY ON A FOX TRACK. After the fox was jumped he ran by body scent, with his head up, & we seen him at times 20-30 feet downwind of where the fox went through, just running to catch, all of the time. The closer he got to catching the fox the more silent he got.

Dad also had 2 dogs that we could coon & possum hunt them at night, then take them fox hunting in the morning, & if we could catch them off of the fox, we could rabbit hunt them in the afternoon.


use to we would call those GOOD hounds.. you could hunt anything you wanted with them and the hound seemed to know what he was suppose to do.. today they would be culled and called trashy!!!

i use to have one i could run deer with in the daylight with no coon problems and he would tree every coon in the woods at night with no deer problems.. his one fault, if he crossed a cat track in daylight or dark he WAS gonna quit what he was doing and tree that cat!!

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I realize there are some good spotted hounds out there.. I just went black... and you know what they say... I LOVE IT!!

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

Oh man, just reading these post brings back a lot of good memories. I remember the high yellow, and high tan dogs. A lot of the B&T were colored up like blood hounds; tan with a black saddle. I bought my first few dogs at the stock yard, and when I got one that would tree a coon I could walk back to the truck without putting my feet on the ground.

I have all reg. dogs, and have for years. All around, they are better than the dogs I used to have. I really think I enjoyed hunting more before I got some things figured out.

Times have changed, along with our culture, and our hunting. Land we used to hunt is now covered in houses.

The dogs I hunt will give you a slick tree more than the old dogs used to. They did not tree as hard, or as quick as the dogs I have now. Back then they did not want a " One Bark Tree-Dog." Everyone wanted a dog to circle the tree before they settled. Sometimes it would take a while to settle, but when they did you could load the rifle.

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Phone (336) 648-3210

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Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Last edited by Craig Edwards on 12-07-2008 at 07:18 PM

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

darn grate ol photo. i have many of them myself. if you look at a dog you can still tell a lot about them from there make up. why you dont see it so much we today do not spend the time with our dog's like they did back then.i have a dog here now that i can tell you what he is fix'n to do befor he will do it. i hunt him 7 nights a week and i know him.we do need to look at if a dog can tree more than who is in it's ped. last time i saw a set of papers tree a coon ol rick rodomel had them for sell and it came with a worthless walker dog you could hang on them......

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: NW FL
Posts: 334

and that truck brings back ALOT of memories also... i use to have a 66 JUST like it... same color and all.. most of the dog boxes were built very simular to that also.. the tail gate was the door to the box and when you opened it a dog sure as heck better not try to run out till his or her name was called.. those tail gates would leave a mark when they slammed shut on a dogs head.. we use to cram my truck full with about that many hounds (no room to fight) and head to the woods.. i even dated in mine with my hounds in the back cause when i carried my date (dates ) home i was headed to spend the rest of the night in the woods..

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I realize there are some good spotted hounds out there.. I just went black... and you know what they say... I LOVE IT!!

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

Blueticking it: Thanks for the pic. Brings back a lot of memories. I liked the 59 Chev in the background.

Keep em coming. I like to read these old stories, and see old pics.

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Phone (336) 648-3210

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 463

I grew up hearing this in the late sixties and seventies. (Those papered dogs were being ruined at those night hunts not giving them the fur). They got one papered dog and it was a cull and got culled.

We would go to dog and gun auctions in Rutledge Mo. I was young but seemed like there was hundreds of dogs for sale and always came back with something.

I've got different ideas about night hunts but the good ol days are gone.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2713

I remember hearing some old hunters around here talking about the first set of dog papers they ever owned. They had a half walker half english bird dog that was about the coon treeingest thing they had ever seen and wanted to put it in some hunts so they went and bought a young papered dog for about nothing just to get some papers. That dog won more than a few hunts and several of them were national level hunts. They said he was chop mouth all the time track or tree and it was hard to call it treed, you just had to wait til you were sure it was stationary and tree it.

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: SE Minnesota
Posts: 538

Back in the 70's we considered them coodogs no matter the color. lol Papers were never a must. We had Redbones, Walkers, Blueticks, Blk-Tan's, but were crossed with some thing else. lol We always breed to our own liking. If we liked A blue male and a Walker, thats what we breed. Believe it or not we sold every last pup back then. Alot made some very nice hounds and like today were treeing at a young age. The best hound I ever owned was a no papered what ever. lol Have never found a dog in all these yrs that would come close to her abilities. Back then we just called them coondogs. wasent a color issue. Now it has to be a certain color, come with a certain bloodline to be considered the real deal. Well I am not so sure. lol If I was able to hunt some of those colored coondogs in comp hunting today. They would wonder how they got beat by a mutt. lol I actually miss those wonderful years of hunting. Just plain simple.

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Florence, KS
Posts: 2

I remember when you looked for a coondog, color was the last thing you worried about. We looked for ability as we wanted to KILL COONS! Best dogs I had were Grade dogs. Just like mutts, they were smarter and more well rounded as a whole hunting dog. Not just a jam up treedog that couldnt move a track and so on.
Years ago I had a grade Plott dog that I "aquired" a set of papers for and hunted him in a few nite hunts in the Registered hunts. He won most and placed in every one of them. I never took a win and told them after what the deal was. They didnt have a papered dog that could touch him.
This was in small hunts 25 years ago, so dont anybody panick about being cheated!!! I never bred the dog either. He was just a great coon dog to kill coons with.
When they started breeding papers instead of "coondogs" they lost alot,IMO.
Billy

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3970

Grade dogs, Yep, I love Um.

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Growing up my dad always had a grade dog around. Some of my first memories were of an ol' dusty dirty Elkhound tied behind the shed. He was a coon treer but seldom did he ever come home with us. He'd tree coon, show us the tree but before Dad could ever put a lead on him he'd be off getting another one going. Didn't seem like a big deal. I don't even know if Dad ever tied a dog at a tree in those days or ever had to lead one out of the woods. We'd hunt close to home and he'd show up the next morning, if not he'd farm up somewheres and Dad would pick him up the next day.
After that we went through a litter of 1/2 Lab 1/2 Redbones. Dad would pick one out and it seemed like in a few months something would happen to it, 1 got rabies as a pup after tangling with a skunk around the farm, 1 disappeared, 1 got killed on the road in front of me when out in the yard playing with it.
My Dad's oldest brother always kept a dog too. I've heard many stories of a cur dog he had. Ol' Rex was a good one. From description he sounded like some cur x shepherd cross.
Then when Dad's brother decided to quit he sold us a young Plott dog that he had hunted a couple seasons. Ol' Jim was a good one. He was straight as an arrow other than his yearly possum every fall. He was deadly accurate, I've never heard my Dad say anything about walking to a slick tree with him. He was junkyard dog mean around strangers in the yard. I can remember getting my hopes up when another local hunter had a "Plott" female (I believe it was actually a cur, Tenn Brindle or something like that) that he wanted to breed. He came over to look at Ol' Jim and Jim come unglued on him. That guy said "I ain't breeding to that mean sucker" Dad said "He ain't mean. He just knows a crook when he sees one".... I can remember that vividly.
We hunted ol' Jim every fall for 8-9 years, up until he died at age 12.
Here is a pic with my Dad and Ole Jimbo.


I've had a soft spot in my heart for a brindle dog ever since.

Last edited by on 12-09-2008 at 01:40 AM

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 6548

Dads 1st registered dog back in the late 60's.

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: QC, arizona
Posts: 76

quote:

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Originally posted by blueticking: it

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Station, IN
Posts: 194

quote:

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Originally posted by arizonabeagle
you guys east of the mississippi got things mixed up with all your papers and your nite champs and fancy names
hell we still got dogs that look like that out here in az, people still breed to their own likeing..papers dont matter to me or the folks i hunt with

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: QC, arizona
Posts: 76

we get it done out here
your paper might get dirty in the mountains hahaha

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Station, IN
Posts: 194

hahaha..Yeah.. Its true!! hell not alot of people would do what we do in the MOUNTAINS OF NORTHERN! ARIZONA!!!

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

Went hunting last night, and while I was hunting got to thinking about some of the dogs I used to own.

You know, when I first started hunting I didn't even know anything about a dog's mouth. It didn't matter if it was bawl or chop, loud or soft, deep or high; to be honest, I didn't know the difference.

I really think I enjoyed it more when hunting was more simple. Now, at least for me, I want a dog to look a certain way, sound a certain way, and be bred a certain way. I don't know when, or how it happened, but that's where I am.

It's a good thing, because the dogs of yesteryear would be hard to find.

Sometimes I think we would all be better off, even the hunts, if we would get back to the basics and make the main thing the main thing, and that's treeing coon.

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Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

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