Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
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Dogs trail almost out of hearing and the cast drives around. Get there and dogs A & B are treed. Walk in and they are split, scored both trees. Can not hear dog C, time out is called to locate dog C. Does dog C's strike points get minus or deleted? I minused them.

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Bill Harper
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if 8 got dog c minus, if not circle.

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Anytime timeout is called with a dog carrying strike points, those points are circled. If you call a dog off a track to call timeout, the strike points are minused before you call timeout.

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Go back to the last place you heard c and start the eight. if the eight catches him you minus him and then call timeout.

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Ididnt think you could drive around to hear dogs

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Tim M

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backnine is correct, should have gone back to the last place dog C was heard and 8 mins started. I also didnt think you could drive around.

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UKC allows the cast to drive to treed dogs. The other KC's don't.

This is covered in the Advisor book. You can drive around to the tree by vehicle but you cannot follow the dogs by vehicle. Kellam makes the point that if you drive to more than one tree during the hunt, you are probably "following" as opposed to "driving to".

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it wasnt made clear that all dogs were treed

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That is a good point Gary. My guess is that if those dogs weren't treed, then the cast was following the dogs by vehicle and not going to the dogs. In which case the whole cast should be scratched.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
That is a good point Gary. My guess is that if those dogs weren't treed, then the cast was following the dogs by vehicle and not going to the dogs. In which case the whole cast should be scratched.

---

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Dogs A & B were released to Dog C who was trailing. Dogs A & B were struck in and treed and Dog C was suspected to be there but could not be heard at that distance. It turned out that she was not there.

I've hunted in In. and it's not like hunting here. It would have taken 45 minutes to an hour or more to reach the dogs that were treed. We drove within 200 yards of them. You do not always drive, you usually walk.

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scrached, you cant drive to dogs unless all declared treed.

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good work Marvy

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oops! I think im wrong!

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majority of cast must agree to drive

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On dog C they didn't run the 8 and they called time out. So his strike should be deleted or a line drawn thru it not circled. By calling time out you didn't give the dog a chance to finish the track so it would be deleted. I know the scores going to come out the same at the end of the hunt. But I think this is the way it should be done. Am I right??

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I would say the eight needed to be put on, If it wasn't then the points should be deleted. Look at c and d

5. CIRCLED AND DELETED POINTS

Circle points:

(a) When dog strikes and trees up a tree or a hole in the ground where there could be a coon, yet Judge does not see coon and no off game is seen. (No tree climbing.) NOTE: In case of running coon in hole or place of refuge other than a tree, handler may call dog treed. However, if not called treed, cast may proceed to general area, and track can be considered finished if dogs, by actions either tree barking or otherwise, show to the satisfaction of the Judge, coon to be there. One dog must show end of trail. For dogs declared treed in hole or tile, see Rule 3(b) or 4(c), if applicable.

(b) No dog to receive minus points for coming into tree after Judge arrives unless a coon is seen and the dogs treeing are awarded plus points.

Delete points:

(c) If dogs are trailing when time is out.

(d) If Judge has to call time out in accordance with Rule 8.

(e) No points, not even circled points, will be awarded when dogs return to tree that had previously been scored, cast may go to tree without dogs being declared treed, if majority of cast agree, when hunting Judges are used.

(f) When Judge orders dogs to be called off because of live-stock or nearness to highway, building, etc.

(g) When dog that is shut out comes into tree shut out on.

(h) When dog trees on a tree previously scored.

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I believe that rule 5 [c] refers to the end of the hunt. Also situations arising under rule 8.Those points would count neither for or against the dog.
I refer everyone to rule 17 specifically "Judges are not to let hunters call a dogs off trail without counting those points minus."
In the senario mentioned dog would receive minus points for being caught or minus for the 8 minute rule.
It would be too easy to call dog[s] off a bad track and delete them following this line of thought when the 8 might get them so everyone could save their points.
Bill you were correct either way in minusing dog C .

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Registered: Jun 2003
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We did not wait the full 8 minutes because she was definitely out of hearing. She had a good track going and I knew that she would be heard if she was in hearing, which she was not. I minused her strike points and time out was called to locate her with the recovery collar. We found her under a coon.

In this case there were two options. #1 wait until the 8 minutes caught her, take minus, and then call time out to locate her. #2 call time out, take minus, and locate her.

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Bill Harper
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you should have gone back to the last place that she was heard to start the 8 which must have been where you got in the truck to drive around. Correct?

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No, she was last heard in the area the other two dogs were treed.

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Bill Harper
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by the way you explained it i would have circled her strike points. sorry but i think you made the wrong call.

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Ok dog C is trailing. You score dogs A & B on tree. I think you would then have to go back to the last place you heard dog C. Start the 8 and if dog C owner wants to walk towards the way dog C was last heard he should be able to. After all they are his 8 minutes. If the 8 catches dog C then minus. Call timeout to locate dog C. If 8 doesn't catch dog C cast rest of dogs towards dog C. I don't know if this is right or not, but it is how I would have scored it.

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I can't see any rule anywhere that allows dog C to be minused unless the dogs handler ask judge to minus her so they could call timeout. That is covered under rule 17. Dogs trailing out of hearing get their strike points deleted. That is under rule 8(g) and 5(d). If the cast called timeout while the dog was carrying strike points, those strike points are deleted. That one is explained in rule 5(d).
So....did the handler ask to call his dog in off a track? Minus. Did the dog trail out of hearing? Delete. Did the cast vote to call timeout while the dog was trailing? Delete.
So which one was it?

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Time out was agreed on once it was evident that she was not being heard. It was unknown where she was at that time. Time out was called so she could be located.

Dogs were not trailing out of hearing in different directions as two dogs were leased, so rule 8g does not apply. I believe rule 17 covers the situtation best.

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