Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

is there anything in the rules that allows a judge to minus a dog at the handlers request, when the dog has not earned any minus according to the rules?

Example: dog is treed then hushes and the 2 is started. a few seconds into the 2 the handler says just go ahead and minus Spot. Can or should the judge continue to run the 2 or should he imediately minus the dog.?

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Louisville, MS
Posts: 503

I dont know the answer to your question. But why on earth would you want to go ahead and take a minus? That does not make since to me.

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2961

If the handler says to minus, then the judge should accept the call and minus it. The handler probably knows the dog isn't going to be there anyway, if it hushes on the tree. It may be inexperience on the handlers part, otherwise you might as well let the 2 min. run out or the dog bark off the tree before doing it. I wouldn't let the handler change his mind, if the dog does start barking again before the two actually caught the dog. Take care, Ron.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rosco
I dont know the answer to your question. But why on earth would you want to go ahead and take a minus? That does not make since to me.

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Richland,Mo
Posts: 236

continue to run the two.
rosco- dogs a,b,&c treed in that order. dog a & b leave on track and take minus. dog c is still treed but handler says that he moved, taking 50 minus. dog c is then retreed for 125. possible net gain of 75 pts.

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To answer the question, no, I have never seen anything in the rules that allowes a judge to minus a dog on the handlers orders.

I saw this situation occur one time in another registry. The two was started, the handler said to go ahead and minus the dog about a minute into the two because he believed the dog was out of there. Judge minused the dog and the dog broke the two, continued treeing hard in the exact same place. Handler wanted the minus changed and the judge refused. Then the argument progressed to whether or not you can change a minus on the card and it was all downhill from there.

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I have seen dogs declared treed and then shutup and open obviously away from the tree and the handler say go ahead and minus my dog but that is a situation that was obvious to everyone including the judge and would have resulted in minus even if the handler hadn't spoken up.
Everything seems to work best when the judges do he judging.

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Registered: Feb 2008
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Posts: 3550

this is my opinion. if you tell a jugde to minus your dog. then you are makeing a call. it is no differnt then calling your dog struck. that is also a call. when a person does this it make the cast go much easier and enjoyable.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Owosso MI
Posts: 747

i wish i could go ahead and say PLUS HIM and the judge would listen!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

I remember a hunt where I treed my dog, she hushed up and didnt sound right when she opened again, but was in the same spot.

I told the judge to minus her, the judge reluctantly did.

After re-treeing her, she was in a hole but we could see the coon, Im sure she never moved, and sounded strange because of where the coon was.

I dont claim to be the smartest guy, but I do try to learn from my mistakes....There is such a thing as trying to be too honest.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: SOUTHEASTERN ILLINOIS
Posts: 1451

quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
is there anything in the rules that allows a judge to minus a dog at the handlers request, when the dog has not earned any minus according to the rules?

Example: dog is treed then hushes and the 2 is started. a few seconds into the 2 the handler says just go ahead and minus Spot. Can or should the judge continue to run the 2 or should he imediately minus the dog.?

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Tonasket,Washington
Posts: 923

Funny you ask,elvis.At the finals in 2007(you may remember the year LOL) first round my dog clearly moved(we were standing right on top of them).I told the judge to minus me and he refused my call and told me he would decide if he moved or not and he never did minus me!Only time I've ever griped about not getting minus when I had them coming.LOL I just wanted everyone to know that I wasn't trying to pull anything.By the way I didn't know the judge either LOL So I guess if a judge really wants to he could refuse the call if he feels the dog doesn't deserve it,at which time I guess a person could question the judges refusal to minus.I myself being the sportsmen that I am,decided to not back talk the judge,but man did Jerry Wayne McNeal and I have a laugh about it after the cast.

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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: Lexington, Tennessee
Posts: 673

I think in case of hunt inexperience suspected, judge should explain rule while time is running, and then allow decision if so desired.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Marianna, Florida
Posts: 570

I have had several people say to go ahead and minus there dog.
If I am running the two on them and none as obviously barked off I usually keep running the two anyways. I have seen them start back to treeing again and in all honesty shoudn`t need minusing. If we are walking in to a tree and they say go ahead and minus there dog, I usually minus them because they may have heard there dog barking off and is just being honest.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3847

If you want to keep it all fair in the cast, I would say no you cannot except that call. Otherwise it could turn into "well you minused my dog before the 2, but now you're giving this dog the full 2." And so on.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

Allen,
any thoughts on this?

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: columbia,mo.
Posts: 1256

I would say if the handler says to minus his dog that is what he wants done. Fair enough, give him what he wants and go on. Think about it, how many people are going to say minus their dog if they don't need it. Heck, usually they argue the point when it is obvious they need minusing and have actually made guys mad by not minusing a dog they wanted minused but I didn't think it moved. What do you do, if you think you are doing the honest fair thing for everyone then you have to stick with your guns and role on.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

i have done this several times with dogs i own that are good steady tree dogs. put the 2 on them about a minute into the 2 tell the judge to go ahead & minus my dog or minus it myself if i'm judging. i know my dogs better than any body & i know if i made a mistake or my dog did. most of the time i made the mistake. but i got a dog now that will were out a stop watch on the tree, solid as they get on tree just aint a hard treedog. thats the way i like um. get by their self & stay by their self !! dont draw every thing to um !!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

quote:

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Originally posted by SoSh
continue to run the two.
rosco- dogs a,b,&c treed in that order. dog a & b leave on track and take minus. dog c is still treed but handler says that he moved, taking 50 minus. dog c is then retreed for 125. possible net gain of 75 pts.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Petersburg, Tn. aka Redneck USA
Posts: 1184

Looks to me if the dog hasnt opened off a tree or been caught by the 2 it shouldnt be minused. Some think its honorable to tell a judge to minus his dog before it actually deserves it like the example elvis listed, I think its dumb. I saw a man tree his dog, start the 2, minus the dog 20 seconds into the 2 and the dog continued to tree in the exact same spot. He was the judge and he was sick. That dog wouldve been Grand by now if he had just allow the RULES to take their course.

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1310

I don't think it makes sense to minus any dog until it's really supposed to happen. However, once the 2 minutes is in fact up then the honest thing for the handler to do would be to minus his dog and mention it first without someone else having to call it.

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