Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

8(i)
Time out may be called to go from one tree to another if all dogs are declared treed and more than 15 minutes is required to travel between split trees. If dog leaves tree and goes back on track, time in continues.

I know you have said in the past that those 15 minutes must be between 2 trees. Why? thats not the way I read it and it makes no sense.
It says if 15 minutes are required to travel between split trees, it doesnt say 2,3 or 4 trees.

If it was deemed that anything more than 15 minutes was too much hunt time to use walking between split trees, why would it not be too much if you are walking between 3 or 4 split trees?

Are we not leashlocking dogs long enough the way it is? if you have a 4 way split and all dogs are 10 minutes apart you are useing 30 minutes of hunt time traveling between split trees, and I just dont agree that 8(i) was intended to do that ,nor do i agree it says that.

thanks,
marv

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

It can take 15 min to walk 100 yds if you walk slow enough. If all handlers go to their dog, handle them and then walk back to the first tree, then that should take 15 min. I have never seen anyone start the time to see if it took 15 min to walk between trees. Have you?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

All 4 dogs are split treed in 4 different trees.

You get done scoring Dog A at Tree A. You note that you have 100 minutes left on your countdown. You start to Dog B and let your clock run.

Upon Arriving at Dog B's tree, you not that you are at 90 minutes. (10 minutes walk) so no time could be called for that walk. You score Dog B's tree and note that there are 80 minutes left on your countdown and start to Dog C with clock running.

You get to Dog C's tree and you have 60 minutes left on the clock. Thats a 20 minute walk and you make a note to add that back, later. You score Dog C's tree. There are 55 minutes left on the clock and you start to Dog D, clock running.

At Dog D's tree, your clock says 35 minutes left. Another 20 minute walk and you also make note of that. You score Dog D's tree and the clock says 25 minutes left on the countdown and you call time to move.

All dogs are in hand and you prepare to cast. The clock says 25 minutes left, but you have notes to add 40 minutes for those two 20 minute walks between split trees.

So, 65 minutes left in the hunt.

Seems simple, am I missing something?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
It can take 15 min to walk 100 yds if you walk slow enough. If all handlers go to their dog, handle them and then walk back to the first tree, then that should take 15 min. I have never seen anyone start the time to see if it took 15 min to walk between trees. Have you?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

quote:

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Originally posted by John D
All 4 dogs are split treed in 4 different trees.

You get done scoring Dog A at Tree A. You note that you have 100 minutes left on your countdown. You start to Dog B and let your clock run.

Upon Arriving at Dog B's tree, you not that you are at 90 minutes. (10 minutes walk) so no time could be called for that walk. You score Dog B's tree and note that there are 80 minutes left on your countdown and start to Dog C with clock running.

You get to Dog C's tree and you have 60 minutes left on the clock. Thats a 20 minute walk and you make a note to add that back, later. You score Dog C's tree. There are 55 minutes left on the clock and you start to Dog D, clock running.

At Dog D's tree, your clock says 35 minutes left. Another 20 minute walk and you also make note of that. You score Dog D's tree and the clock says 25 minutes left on the countdown and you call time to move.

All dogs are in hand and you prepare to cast. The clock says 25 minutes left, but you have notes to add 40 minutes for those two 20 minute walks between split trees.

So, 65 minutes left in the hunt.

Seems simple, am I missing something?

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Last edited by elvis on 08-07-2008 at 11:35 PM

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What is really important here is keeping everyone on the same page. By that, I mean you can't have one cast calling timeout to score 4 trees 10 minutes apart and another cast doing it right by keeping the clock running during all of those 4 splits. Because both of those casts are competing for the same win which is given to the higher scoring cast and that cast that hunted 30 extra minutes by stopping the colck when it should have remained running is creating an unfair advantage by giving itself more hunting minutes. I'm not so concerned why UKC require it done the way they do, I just want to be sure we are all doing it the same way.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
What is really important here is keeping everyone on the same page. By that, I mean you can't have one cast calling timeout to score 4 trees 10 minutes apart and another cast doing it right by keeping the clock running during all of those 4 splits. Because both of those casts are competing for the same win which is given to the higher scoring cast and that cast that hunted 30 extra minutes by stopping the colck when it should have remained running is creating an unfair advantage by giving itself more hunting minutes. I'm not so concerned why UKC require it done the way they do, I just want to be sure we are all doing it the same way.

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Last edited by elvis on 08-08-2008 at 12:51 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

This is the first I've ever heard that a cast might be adding time between splits together and counting that total towards the 15 minutes. As far as I'm concerned the rule is clear as a bell.

I bet on 1 out of 3 splits someone tells me I need to call time when we're heading to a split. I'm surprised someone hasn't sprung the "you have to add them up!" on me.

I guess Allen G. can make an announcement and an official interpretation but I doubt it will change how those rule benders will operate. In fact, it probably gave a few more a "good idea" to put in their arsenal of tools on how to eke out a win...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

quote:

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Originally posted by John D
This is the first I've ever heard that a cast might be adding time between splits together and counting that total towards the 15 minutes. As far as I'm concerned the rule is clear as a bell.

I bet on 1 out of 3 splits someone tells me I need to call time when we're heading to a split. I'm surprised someone hasn't sprung the "you have to add them up!" on me.

I guess Allen G. can make an announcement and an official interpretation but I doubt it will change how those rule benders will operate. In fact, it probably gave a few more a "good idea" to put in their arsenal of tools on how to eke out a win...

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Cutler, Il.
Posts: 1631

interpretations again, but here goes. If you go back to some of my posts more than a year ago, you will see where I have said that this is the most UNFAIR RULE in the Rule Book. Now I don't know what the OFFICIAL ruling is, nor do I know what the Advisor says? All I'm going on is what the FIRST SENTENCE SAYS.

The first sentence of Rule 8 i, says "Time out may be called to go from one split tree to another. if all dogs are declared treed and more than 15 minutes is required to travel between trees".

To me, this means that if all 4 dogs are called treed separately, & are more than 15 minutes apart, you can call time out immediately, & go to the first tree. Time back in to shine the tree, then time out is called again to go the next tree, & repeat the process until you get all dogs trees scored. Lets just say that it takes 16 minutes to walk between each tree, you have saved 64 minutes of hunting time. Now take the same scenario, but it only takes 14 minutes to walk between trees. You have now used 56 minutes of hunting time.

What this means is, that the cast that got to call time out, gets to hunt 64 minutes more than the other cast, while the cast that didn't get to call time out are leading their dogs around on the lease with the time running.

I know, as I get ready to push the submit reply button, that my interpretation will be wrong, but all I say IS READ THE FIRST SENTENCE, & tell me WHAT it says.

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Registered: Oct 2003
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Posts: 211

AKC has the BEST rule. No leashlocking, just keep turning loose.Let the coondog win.

merlin

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