Registered: Jun 2003
Location: AUBURN, IN.
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RULE --6[i]--SCRATCHED --if dog is continuously silent on trail---when do you scratch---[1] coon-[2] coon --[3] coon---[4] coon ----ETC--or at the end of the [2] hour hunt ---

needs more teeth in the rule --so all MOH are on the same page

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Underwood in.
Posts: 2312

Should this be a Regional Rule. ?
In your country were There are plenty of coons.after 2-3-4 coons
How would that rule work where the coons are thin.
I have no problem hunting against a Still mouth dog If handler wants to pitch his hound for strike I do have a problem with that.I have hunted in hunts since 1961 I have never seen a dog scratched for being a still.

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IF I CANT BEAT THEM WITH A OPEN DOG, I NEED BEAT!!!!

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Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Batesville, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by GayleFlowers
I have hunted in hunts since 1961 I have never seen a dog scratched for being a still.

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Wow Gayle, you mean you didn't start hunting in the hunts until you thurned 40?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Underwood in.
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quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Moll
Wow Gayle, you mean you didn't start hunting in the hunts until you thurned 40?

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Location: ohio
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quote:

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Originally posted by GayleFlowers
Jerry Real close on the age.
The first Trophy I ever won I used twenty dollars worth of Gas driving around showing my friends.
gas was 14.9 gallon did lots of bragging.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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I'm not talking about beating a silent dog ----

how would you as a MOH rule on it if a member of the cast ? the rule

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ALLNITER DOUG CHEEK

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Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:

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Originally posted by DOUG CHEEK
I'm not talking about beating a silent dog ----

how would you as a MOH rule on it if a member of the cast ? the rule

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
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Elvis haven't we run a corrected version of the Advisor that you are referring to? I thought we had because it's my opinion right now that it's a judge's decision call. We tried to set specific parameters this past rules committee so that we could interpret it more exact but all of our suggestions failed the breed assns votes.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
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quote:

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Originally posted by todd kellam
Elvis haven't we run a corrected version of the Advisor that you are referring to? I thought we had because it's my opinion right now that it's a judge's decision call. We tried to set specific parameters this past rules committee so that we could interpret it more exact but all of our suggestions failed the breed assns votes.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Scranton, AR
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If the handler is pithcing his or her dog the you got a gripe if he aint calling them till the open their mouth then I dont have an issue with it at all.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Ia
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Seen it once.

It was on the fourth drop of the night. After the 3rd drop of the dog being struck in at the tree just before treeing the judge told the guy he would like hear his dog open on track on the next drop or he'd be scratched (other dogs were getting struck and trailing to same trees). Didn't happen so he was scratched. No argueing or complaining from anyone. Doubt I will ever see it again.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by Hawk32
Seen it once.

It was on the fourth drop of the night. After the 3rd drop of the dog being struck in at the tree just before treeing the judge told the guy he would like hear his dog open on track on the next drop or he'd be scratched (other dogs were getting struck and trailing to same trees). Didn't happen so he was scratched. No argueing or complaining from anyone. Doubt I will ever see it again.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Ia
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To do it right they would have had to question the strike calls on the trees made before hand. You can't go back later on and say oh by the way I don't remember your dog barking on track on the last tree. If its not questioned on the first tree then I'd say good luck in scratching me.

If I remember right it was.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by Hawk32
To do it right they would have had to question the strike calls on the trees made before hand. You can't go back later on and say oh by the way I don't remember your dog barking on track on the last tree. If its not questioned on the first tree then I'd say good luck in scratching me.

If I remember right it was.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Panasoffkee, Florida
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Anyone who has been hunting for any length of time knows a silent dog. As a MOH, if a cast come and say they scratched a silent dog, I would poll the cast and go with the decision of the majority. We as MOH's are not there and can't make a judgement call on that issue. As a judge I would watch for a pattern after a tree or two and advise the handler of my observations. If the dog was still silent I would scratch it!

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Crystal Michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by DOUG CHEEK
RULE --6[i]--SCRATCHED --if dog is continuously silent on trail---when do you scratch---[1] coon-[2] coon --[3] coon---[4] coon ----ETC--or at the end of the [2] hour hunt ---

needs more teeth in the rule --so all MOH are on the same page

---

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Crystal Michigan
Posts: 4483

Doesn't the Judge also have to hear a dog open for it to be struck? That would really slow down on the rise of silent trailing dogs. The judge does have the right to refuse a dog being struck in if he did not in fact hear the dog open.

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we treed 4 coons around here we have to tree the feed
bucket tree really if you had that many coons i would
??? why mine was running a track

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Scranton, AR
Posts: 840

I have never seen a MOH uphold a scratch for a silent dog. especially if he was stuck in honestly when he first opened his mouth.

If your carrying 100 strike what does it mater if a dog falls treed out of nowhere if your dog is running a coon he should still be finishing his track and tree it. If he needs to listen to another dog trail then you got issues on the end of your leash. If he trees on the same tree then he shoulda run the track faster.


If a handler calls his and only his dog and beats you with a still mouth dog then that is on your dog not the guy handling the tight mouthed dog.

The only advantage a still mouth dog should have over an open trailing dog is you cant here him screw up so he dont draw a bunch of minus.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by blueticking: it
we treed 4 coons around here we have to tree the feed
bucket tree really if you had that many coons i would
??? why mine was running a track

---

I like that

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Registered: Apr 2007
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I have seen dogs not open on a particular night and then be wide open on others.

I have hunted in competition for over 30 years. I have yet to meet a judge that I thought could be 100% accurate in determining whether or not a dog was silent. Nor have a met a judge that I thought was capable of determining whether a dog was babbling or not 100% of the time.

I like Jerrys rule.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: CANADA
Posts: 1903

I have one that is stone silent. He will always be alone. I was told that if a dog trees 3 times without opening, and treed on the same tree as another dog did that ran a track then it was proof the dog was still. If your silent dog is deep and lonely every drop and never opens, then the burden of proof is on the judge. Who is to say he did not lay it up. No other dog in the cast ran open to that tree.

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Registered: Oct 2004
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I'm a MOH. I hunt tight mouth dogs. If a dog barks 1 time anywhere before treed that dog isn't continously silent. 1 track or 10 that is not completely silent to me.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
Posts: 2595

This is one rule that has always bugged me. I absolutly hate a silent dog and wont breed one no matter what other qualitys it has. Instant cull at my house.

That being said I have never found a real good way to prove a dog was silent in 2 hours. Different terrain, tracking condishions, weather, if the coon are moving or not, ect. come in play.


Bringing us to the wording of the rule. "Continuously silent". For how long? 1 track? Most of a track? The entire cast?

To me it leaves way too much room for personal opinion, and can be used or not used to whatever degree a judge sees fit.


Around here you usualy draw from a pool of maybe 25 open dogs and 10 or 15 ntchs in a given area who may or may not be at the hunt that night. By the end of the year you know most of the dogs almost as well as your own. Most you have drawn a couple times, some more, by the end of the year. Under those guidelines I feel I could make a pretty good judgement call on a dog being silent.

If I go to say AO where there are literaly hundreds of dogs to draw from you have never seen before and will probably never see agian, Im not so sure you can make that call in a 2 hour hunt.


Plain and simple it could be way to easy to abuse.


BTW Todd,

I remember you adressing this on here, but dont remember an revised Adviser on it either. Could have missed it pretty easy, but I dont remember it.

The last word I remember on it was last year when you said on here in your opinion 3 tracks where a dog just fell treed was grounds to scratch for being silent.

I would sure like to read it if there was one, just to be on the same page.

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