Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Maine/Virginia
Posts: 239

Hello Everyone:

How was it decided that the ancestors of feist dogs were "brought over by English...immigrants" in the following brief history of the dogs on the Cur and Feist Page?


"The Feist breeds are descended from the terriers brought over by English miners and other working class immigrants. These terriers probably included crosses between the Smooth Fox Terrier, the Manchester Terrier and the now extinct white English Terrier. Some of these dogs were crossed with Whippets or Italian Greyhounds (for speed) and Beagles (for hunting ability). Eventually, these tough little terriers evolved into today's squirrel hunting Feists."


I am not trying to start anything but if you look at the history of the migration of people into the "heart of feist country" (ie. Appalachian and later Ozark Mountains) you will see that English settlers were not the most common.

Long story very short, the mountains of Maryland, Virginia (there was 1 at that time that included what is now West Virginia and Kentucky), North Carolina (then including Tennessee), South Carolina, Georgia and Alabama were settled by people who came from mainly two sources of population. These were south central Pennsylvania and north central North Carolina. The nationalities of these people include what we know as Scots-Irish and German (referred to as Dutch). The Scots-Irish were so-called because they were displaced Scottish people living in Ireland. The English influenced coastal settlements contributed little to the settlement of the mountains comparitively. It is the differences between the Lowland South and the Highland South (not trying to generalize) that lead to political tensions which culminated during the Civil War....

This is a very complicated issue but maybe "English...immigrants" is not the proper classification for the people who brought over the ancestors of feist dogs.

If anyone unfamiliar with the history of the Appalachian region is interested you might check out these books from the early 20th Century:

Our Southern Highlanders

The Southern Highlander and His Homeland

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-SQ_Hunter_Gray

GRAY'S MOUNTAIN FEIST

http://graysmountainfeist.com/

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 761

Very interesting post Marc. Makes a man wonder about more of the so called history on the Cur & Feist . Enjoyed your post.

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L.H. & Curt Ladner Blackmouth Curs in Michigan

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point NC
Posts: 126

SQ_Hunter
a better term would have been british immigrants.
OTH englishmen were much more prolific breeders of terrier type dogs & feists are clearly terriers. off the top of my head there was at least 12 breeds of terrier indigenous to england, maybe half that in ireland, 4 in scotland & 2 from wales. ALL the smoothcoated breeds were english. on the dutch side of the house, they only have a couple of breeds of terrier the dachshunds/teckel, the schnauzer, & the pinscher.
beagles were an affectation of the middleclass merchants & tradesmen to emulate the big game & fox hunting social events of the nobility and so would have rarely been available to the criminal & poor immigrants sent here from britain. also terriers are racy enough & do not need whippit or the fragile & rare toy greyhound bred into them. so i doubt the involvement of either of these in the developement of the feist breeds, at least in any significant way. and since no one recorded their breeding, it's really all speculation.
IMO (worth what you paid for it), the feists descend primarily from smooth english terriers and may possibly have had some german terrier & wirehair british terrier involved along the way.

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