Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

2 dog cast......dog strikes and trees on a clear slick according to the judge. Other participant says that tree should be circled due to the canopy rule? This is Sat. night no leaves in sight. Judge offered spot light and for other particpant to use it to show him shere he thought coon should be. HE said I'll just put a question mark beside it. Takes it back to MOH and he says throw out both strike and tree since there is no majority rule and he wasn't there to see tree.

Please weigh in on this.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Ironton, Ohio
Posts: 111

What are you referring to as a canopy rule?

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Ryan Hanshaw (740)533-3635

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Well there is no such thing as a "canopy rule".

However, it was a 1-1 vote, no majority was reached and the tree could not be scored.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 100

was it a hunting judge or a non hunting judge? the master hounds should have put a trusted non hunting judge on the cast. i could be wrong but i thought it had to be a non hunting judge on a two dog cast and that you could not question a non hunting judges call. just my 2 cents worth.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Ironton, Ohio
Posts: 111

In ukc 2 people can hunt with out a Non hunting judge.

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Ryan Hanshaw (740)533-3635

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 100

thanks MR. Ryan at all our club hunts we use a non hunting judge on all our 2 dog registered cast and on our 1 or 2 dog nite ch cast.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

Just wanted to know what others thought. There wasn't a non hunting judge available. There were only 5 dogs reg that came to hunt a 3 dog cast and a 2 dog cast. I was just a spectator. Had no dog in the fight. Looked the back of the score card and there wasn't anything close to covering this.

I knew the judge and trusted him. He's an honorable man. The other was just a young kid who refused to think his dog would have treed slick. He was a tree jammer. This judge has ruled on his own dog in the past even though it went against him. If his dog trees slick, he'll be the first to admit it.
I know it was a tough question, just wasn't sure how it should have been scored. The MOH deleted the stike and tree as if it never happened and the slick treeing dog ended up winning the cast on circle tree points. I listened to the hunt from the truck and I could tell how things were falling out. The slick treeing dog as I call him. Was jamming trees all through the wood while the other little dog was stiking trailing and treeing the two trees that had coons in them.

That is the breaks when you competition hunt. The best dog doesn't always win. You know that going in. The judge who lost the cast said "oh well" Not worth losing sleep over it and went home. I just hate to see injustices that's all and why I brought this up. Thanks for your input.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

tied after the MOH made his decision. They went through all the tie breakers and down to the last one before you flip a coin.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 100

if the tree is small enough cut it down a bring it in for evidence. lol

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

I quit competition hunting several years ago due to crap like this. Hardly no one is honorable any more. Coonhunters are worse than a bunch of hen clacking women. They (we) Us) gossip and tell tall tales out of school. no one wants to admit their dog isn't perfect. Tonight just validated why I stopped this. Just a plain ole country coon hunter now. It's a lot more fun.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: lincoln;Albama
Posts: 63

how did thurmans dog do

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

My truck is broke down and my buddy brought along his two cousins, so we had a full truck.
I saw a beautiful half brother to him at the hunt though. Both of them out of Sackett III Thurmans dog is a big white dog with a few spots. Open spotted. I heard he ran a deer the other night, but didn't run off on it. He hasn't been hunted in awhile. He was doing real good before he was put up. Or so I hear.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

What you doin up so late???

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: wakeman, ohio
Posts: 2294

quote:

---

Originally posted by cripple creek
I quit competition hunting several years ago due to crap like this. Hardly no one is honorable any more. Coonhunters are worse than a bunch of hen clacking women. They (we) Us) gossip and tell tall tales out of school. no one wants to admit their dog isn't perfect. Tonight just validated why I stopped this. Just a plain ole country coon hunter now. It's a lot more fun.

---

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Cutler, Il.
Posts: 1631

Cripple Creek, the way I read your explanation of what happened, the TREE in question should not have mattered in the outcome of the CAST WINNER ANYWAY?

If the one dog, struck & treed 2 coon, thats 450 plus points, & if the SLICK treeing dog got second on both of the tree's with coon in them, he/she would have 300 plus points. So, if the SLICK TREEING dog did have several CIRCLE OR SLICK TREES, it still SHOULD NOT have mattered in the FINAL OUTCOME, of who won the cast.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I just don't understand your explanation of what happened?????????????

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CUTLER, AMERICA

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Rockmart Ga.
Posts: 8685

quote:

---

Originally posted by cripple creek
I quit competition hunting several years ago due to crap like this. Hardly no one is honorable any more. Coonhunters are worse than a bunch of hen clacking women. They (we) Us) gossip and tell tall tales out of school. no one wants to admit their dog isn't perfect. Tonight just validated why I stopped this. Just a plain ole country coon hunter now. It's a lot more fun.

---

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

---

Originally posted by cripple creek
........ The slick treeing dog as I call him. Was jamming trees all through the wood while the other little dog was stiking trailing and treeing the two trees that had coons in them.
.........

---

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mississippi
Posts: 4655

1. due to it not being important as to the answer of my question.
2. I didn't have time.
3. I didn't memorize the score card point for point.

When the MOH took away the 250 minus and deleted them from the score card, it made both dogs even with plus points.

then you start the tie breaker stuff
1. minus points
2. tree points
3. circle points

they were still tied at this point then it went to
4. strike points
and the tree jammer got them because he was getting called strike and tree with the same breath a couple of times because he wasn't opening on track.

I got the answer I was looking for. The master of hound who is a friend of mine made the best call he could have under the circumstances. I just had never heard about points being deleted for this particular situation.

Hindsight being 20/20. We should have had a non hunting judge period. Why do we call them judges if they can't really control a cast. Why don't we just call them score keepers.
What is to say that on a 4 dog cast that 2 guys are buddies and claim they don't see a coon their dogs don't tree but the other two guys dogs do. Again you don't have a majority.

Don't think this can't happen so you better prepare for it.

This did happen at a ukc hunt that I know of and the hunter whose dog treed the coon. left and went to the truck and came back and shot the coon out to prove his point and UKC barred him, so this is a serious issue.

My point in this whole matter is that this young hunter who wanted to win at all costs refused to admit his dog treed slick. bottom line!!! Why else would he refuse to take a spot light and show the judge where the coon could possibly be. You know the answer.

again hindsight being 20/20. The MOH should have asked the young man why he refused to take the spot light and show the judge a hole, a snag, where two trees were even touching (which they weren't) it is winter here and other than a cedar tree you can see through them all now.

I hunt with this judge a lot and his hound. I know her as well as he does. Does she make mistakes yes, has she ever treed slick and missed the coon? yes. But this man says it straight up. He knows it and I know it why try to convince someone of something that is not true.

It is about being honorable and moral bottom line.
We are both christians and answer to a higher power.
So this is really a mute point.
Neither of us lost any sleep over it like we would have years ago before we both became christians.
During that time I saw fights break out. I've even heard of
guns being pulled even friendships being broken over a stupid hunt!!!!

The bible says to seek wise council in all that we do. That is what I was doing. Seeking wise council as to how not let this happen again. Who knows I might get over being
jaded about these hunts and try it again. If I do, Then you can bet I will be prepared for this situation. I'm just trying to be wise for myself and make sure I see others point of view and not think I have all the answers.

Two or three guys on here called it like it was.
Which was
1. have a non hunting judge on a two dog cast
2. delete the points if a non hunting judge wasn't available (which is what happened)
3. cut the tree down . (my favorite)

Sorry you other guys didn't get the point.
I'll try to be more informative next time I ask a complicated answer or maybe I'll just type slower.

regards and have a great week!!!

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 2147

You can hunt with just two peple in ukc. But yes, if no majority, no plus points.

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