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gunduke314
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: madison ohio
Posts: 21

Need Advise On A Rule!!!!!

Question I couldn't find answer in book. If a dig is struck in and you put the 8 on it is the handler allowed to wherever they want in those 8mins to hear their dog? Had a guy say he has 8 mins he can walk wherever he wants to be able hear his dog it's his 8 mins. He never took his eye off his garmin. Kept walking in the direction his dog was going. Any help would be be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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08-21-2022 07:26 PM

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Lone Pine JB
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Brookville, PA
Posts: 2461

He is correct. It's his 8 minutes to walk wherever. Garmin makes no difference as you're not scoring, simply getting into a position where cast can hear the dog if it is barking.

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08-21-2022 08:26 PM

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Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1184

I know it gets used in a way that was told to you a lot. However the telemetry rule number 3 says that you are not walk in direction of dogs not heard barking. The majority of cast can agree to walk in any direction tho.

3. At no time may a handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening. The judge, or majority of the cast when hunting judge is used, may agree to walk in that direction.

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Last edited by Sonny Phipps on 08-21-2022 at 10:24 PM

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08-21-2022 10:21 PM

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wart
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 419

Rule

How about the common sense rule start walking in the direction the dog was last heard in you can also use the split the difference common sense rule here also

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08-21-2022 11:12 PM

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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3447

quote:
Originally posted by Lone Pine JB
He is correct. It's his 8 minutes to walk wherever. Garmin makes no difference as you're not scoring, simply getting into a position where cast can hear the dog if it is barking.

It is being used in scoring. Without the Garmin he wouldn't know which way to walk and he would be minused. I thought we were only allowed to use tracking equipment for when your dog was in danger and finding him when the hunt was over.

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08-22-2022 12:33 AM

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Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1184

Re: Rule

quote:
Originally posted by wart
How about the common sense rule start walking in the direction the dog was last heard in you can also use the split the difference common sense rule here also

To me that is a different situation. You need to go back to the last place u heard the dog to put the 8 on him. I have to assume they were in a location that was considered where they last heard him when they started running the 8.

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Last edited by Sonny Phipps on 08-22-2022 at 01:19 AM

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08-22-2022 12:36 AM

Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

You can walk the direction of the last place you heard the dog.

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08-22-2022 01:17 AM

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Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1184

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
You can walk the direction of the last place you heard the dog.

Maybe Trevor will clarify the official interpretation of that scenario for us, but the rule says �at no time may a handler demand the cast to walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening�.

My understanding would be that the cast returns to the last spot the dog was heard from run the 8. I would think that most hunters would try to get to a location that gives a handler a fair chance to hear the dog tho.

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08-22-2022 01:38 AM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5922

The guy was correct.

You go back to the last place you heard the dog then start the 8. It is his 8 minutes he can walk whatever direction he wants to go and there is no rule against him using his Garmin.

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08-22-2022 02:07 AM

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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3447

Re: The guy was correct.

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
You go back to the last place you heard the dog then start the 8. It is his 8 minutes he can walk whatever direction he wants to go and there is no rule against him using his Garmin.

My bad. I didn't think a Garmin could be used to help your score in any way.

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08-22-2022 02:35 AM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5922

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
I know it gets used in a way that was told to you a lot. However the telemetry rule number 3 says that you are not walk in direction of dogs not heard barking. The majority of cast can agree to walk in any direction tho.

3. At no time may a handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening. The judge, or majority of the cast when hunting judge is used, may agree to walk in that direction.

*This rule refers to dogs that have not been struck in.

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08-22-2022 02:43 AM

Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5922

Re: Re: The guy was correct.

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
My bad. I didn't think a Garmin could be used to help your score in any way.

A judge can't use it to take tree calls. They can't use it to minus dogs for moving and ect.

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08-22-2022 03:06 AM

gunduke314
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: madison ohio
Posts: 21

Re: Rule

quote:
Originally posted by wart
How about the common sense rule start walking in the direction the dog was last heard in you can also use the split the difference common sense rule here also

The problem is the last place the was heard was at the tree. He left the tree. So we leashed our dogs and was waiting to hear his dog to be able to cut loose. The handler said he can walk wherever he wants in his 8 mi s and walked the way his dog was by using his garmin.

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08-22-2022 03:10 AM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5922

Re: Re: Rule

quote:
Originally posted by gunduke314
The problem is the last place the was heard was at the tree. He left the tree. So we leashed our dogs and was waiting to hear his dog to be able to cut loose. The handler said he can walk wherever he wants in his 8 mi s and walked the way his dog was by using his garmin.

And he can just like you can use your Telemetry unit to find your dog while on time out with the hour running to avoid being scratched.
Telemetry is for your personal use during a nite hunt. These are 2 instances that do give all carrying one an advantage that before their use being allowed was not there previous.Telemetry rules are in place that prevent a handler from using it to control a dog during the hunt and judges from taking or making calls without hearing or seeing an action. When their allowance was put in place it was determined that the pros and dog safety outweighed the cons of knowing which way to walk when the 8 is running or where to find your dog during a timeout period.

Last edited by Redneck Mafia on 08-22-2022 at 11:02 AM

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08-22-2022 10:58 AM

pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

It's his 8 minutes but at the same time there's the rest of the cast and if they don't want to move there is not much u can do. The cast is to stay together. Respect for each other can go both ways in a cast.

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08-22-2022 02:01 PM

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

The cast needs to stay together so if he walks in the direction of his dog, everyone has to walk with him.
Why do people come up with so many excuses or different interpretions of a rule when they don't like the rule. Just because you don't like a rule doesn't mean that you don't have to follow it.

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08-22-2022 02:09 PM

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gunduke314
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: madison ohio
Posts: 21

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
The cast needs to stay together so if he walks in the direction of his dog, everyone has to walk with him.
Why do people come up with so many excuses or different interpretions of a rule when they don't like the rule. Just because you don't like a rule doesn't mean that you don't have to follow it.

I wanted clarification cause people in cast one was saying one thing someone was saying another. I was always u def the impression like someone else in the cast you go back to where you heard the dog last and that's where you have to listen. I didn't know you could use the garmin to walk towards your dog when you can't hear it barking. I just wanted clarification

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08-22-2022 03:25 PM

Hoosier Man1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6868

I'm not sure where the confusion comes from with this rule. It's one the easiest rules to follow. Most the problems associated with this rule are from guys trying to throw there weight around.

The key factors in following this rule as its written is dogs (STRUCK) in opposed to being not struck in because it's handled entirely different.

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08-22-2022 08:44 PM

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Sonny Phipps
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1184

I still interested in hearing the official reply. If we are at the last place we heard the dog opening and don�t hear him/her , can we walk with the Garmin to get to where we can hear? The rule says not to walk to a dog not heard opening. I�ve seen it applied both ways and thought I understood what it meant. Some situation it will work out for you better one way and the next situation it will work better the other way. I know before the Garmin was allowed during the hunt that the 8 was yours to walk wherever u wanted.

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08-22-2022 09:07 PM

gunduke314
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: madison ohio
Posts: 21

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I'm not sure where the confusion comes from with this rule. It's one the easiest rules to follow. Most the problems associated with this rule are from guys trying to throw there weight around.

The key factors in following this rule as its written is dogs (STRUCK) in opposed to being not struck in because it's handled entirely different.

I agree with people trying to throw weight around. The dog was struck and treed. Dog left the tree other dogs were treed there also. When we scored the tree we walked a little away from the tree to listen for the other dog so we could cut loose. We put the eight on it and the handler looked at his garmin and said I have eight minutes and started walking the way the garmin said his dog was. The dog was last heard at the tree. I was just wondering if he was right he can walk anywhere to hear his dog or if the other guy was right and we listen from the last place the dog was heard.

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08-22-2022 09:16 PM

Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5922

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
I know before the Garmin was allowed during the hunt that the 8 was yours to walk wherever u wanted.

It did not change when telemetry was allowed. It is still your 8 to walk. As I stated beforehand the telemetry rule refers to dogs that have not been struck in.

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08-22-2022 10:51 PM

jkidd1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2622

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
I still interested in hearing the official reply. If we are at the last place we heard the dog opening and don�t hear him/her , can we walk with the Garmin to get to where we can hear? The rule says not to walk to a dog not heard opening. I�ve seen it applied both ways and thought I understood what it meant. Some situation it will work out for you better one way and the next situation it will work better the other way. I know before the Garmin was allowed during the hunt that the 8 was yours to walk wherever u wanted.

Yes, if you�re at the last place you heard the dog, you start the 8 right there and the handler can choose to walk his 8, the GARMIN really isn�t anything here but a tool to help know the distance/direction, the 8minute rule didnt change with the use of Garmins. You have to make every effort to score that dog. The telemetry rule you are referring to only applies to dogs the have not been struck in on the card and haven�t opened at all, in this case the dog was.

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08-22-2022 10:54 PM

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Sonny Phipps
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Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1184

Sounds good. That�s the way I�ll use it 😎

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08-23-2022 01:15 AM

A House Cat
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WART said common sense rule. Where is a common sense rule in UKC?

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08-23-2022 12:11 PM

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Jason Bourne
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Rules

One thought on another note, rules are constantly tweeked, look at all the opions on this, when you vote on changes this year, are we adding to confusion?

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08-23-2022 12:57 PM