Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 936

Once in a while, i'll raise a litter of pups, i try to breed, coon dogs to coon dogs, my goal is to have every pup in the litter, to tree it's own coon. I raise black&tan pups, i raised a litter, last year, from a heavy Combs&Smith Smokey bred male dog, and bred my female which her mother is a littermate sister, to Ugly Stick's, sire, and every dog in her 3 generation goes to Set-em-Ace. The reports, back on the pups were outstanding, one female treeing a turned loose coon at 5 months of age. Now she was 1 year old nov. 22, and she was doing good until her owner, beat her for comeing back in to him, too early, and he thinks that she will get tree happy, by petting her on the tree, now he says she has left some trees. Well if you can't trust your owner, who can you trust, you do not beat on a dog, to make them hunt deeper, someone is full of it. You let the dog grow up, especially under two years, of age. Here, he had a super good pup, and he might have ruined her already. Super pups are what every breeder, strives to produce, not just one or two pups in the litter but every one, to tree it's own coon, but i can not fix stupid.

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J.B.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

Could be inexperience,, maybe ego , some would call it burned-out.
One thing is for sure, ya don't cry over the worthless pups.
Dang shame but it happens.

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Registered: Jul 2021
Location: Tenn.
Posts: 286

You may have to keep the litter and train em all yourself to reach that goal🙂.That would be another tough goal to reach.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 936

I can count on one hand, the number of Super pups, that i have seen or raised, they are not plentifull. I raise pups, with a lot of love, i've had grown dogs, wiggle all over when they see me, and they'll be so big that i don't recognise them, but they know me. If you want a pup to hunt deeper, you hunt them with older dogs, that hunt deeper, you do not beat them, that makes them hard to catch, and ruins their trust in you. How many beat their wives and girl friends, and still have them? You get more from dogs, by just talking to them, they understand, a whole lot more than you think. And there, ain't no short cuts, when training dogs, you have to hunt them, and put them in coons, you do not have to kill, every coon they tree, either. Just because you think, that they are a year old, and should be top dogs, don't make it so. They have their own brain, and they do what they are breed to do. The last litter, i raised. I threw an old coon hide in their pen, i saw this litter at 5 weeks of age, look at it, for 5 seconds, then they all jumped on it. Took a hold, and one tore off a peice, and took off, with the rest in hot pursuit. Coon dogs are born, not made.

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J.B.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

Are they really super pups? Are they really that rare? If they are they shouldn't be. The pup I am currently hunting just turned 10 months old and has treed I'm guessing around 100 coon alone. It's not the 1st pup I have had do well young. It should be something we all strive for. It's called natural ability. There born that way. If I have to train one I just don't feel like breeding it. I feel like this is where some make there mistake. Instead of breeding 2 natural dogs with ability they breed 2 titled or big time winners that was trained and expect something natural. Just because they won something doesn't mean they can reproduce natural ability.

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Registered: Jul 2021
Location: Tenn.
Posts: 286

Ms Pam Johnson your pup may not have done so well if he was raised by an idiot and hunted where coon population was thin.No doubt natural ability is a must but they have to be handled right.Sounds like your doing it right and have a good coon population.

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Are they really super pups? Are they really that rare? If they are they shouldn't be. The pup I am currently hunting just turned 10 months old and has treed I'm guessing around 100 coon alone. It's not the 1st pup I have had do well young. It should be something we all strive for. It's called natural ability. There born that way. If I have to train one I just don't feel like breeding it. I feel like this is where some make there mistake. Instead of breeding 2 natural dogs with ability they breed 2 titled or big time winners that was trained and expect something natural. Just because they won something doesn't mean they can reproduce natural ability.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jan 2018
Location: n/w ohio
Posts: 328

quote:

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Originally posted by JOE H BROOKS
Once in a while, i'll raise a litter of pups, i try to breed, coon dogs to coon dogs, my goal is to have every pup in the litter, to tree it's own coon. I raise black&tan pups, i raised a litter, last year, from a heavy Combs&Smith Smokey bred male dog, and bred my female which her mother is a littermate sister, to Ugly Stick's, sire, and every dog in her 3 generation goes to Set-em-Ace. The reports, back on the pups were outstanding, one female treeing a turned loose coon at 5 months of age. Now she was 1 year old nov. 22, and she was doing good until her owner, beat her for comeing back in to him, too early, and he thinks that she will get tree happy, by petting her on the tree, now he says she has left some trees. Well if you can't trust your owner, who can you trust, you do not beat on a dog, to make them hunt deeper, someone is full of it. You let the dog grow up, especially under two years, of age. Here, he had a super good pup, and he might have ruined her already. Super pups are what every breeder, strives to produce, not just one or two pups in the litter but every one, to tree it's own coon, but i can not fix stupid.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
Posts: 4837

People are the main problem in a lot of dog development. They constantly manipulate a situation to try to mold what they have to what they want. Can this be done? Maybe a little but overall not so much.
Im no expert coon hunter but ive raised a fair share of pups and it is so much less frustrating, so much more rewarding, and such a much better use of your time and money to find a dog that does what your looking for simply because that is how its brain is wired.
Unfortunately at $1000 a pop too many people are dedicated to making what they have work, overlook things they know don't work...breed the dog hoping all the good shines through and tge bad is left behind...and then wonder why they deal with the same frustration for a lifetime.
With the cost of just raising a pup now the situation only looks to get worse and worse as nobody wants to invest all that time and money and just cull.

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The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 936

Well, i've got a big time hunter, that lives a mile and 1/2 from me, he's won it all UKC,PKC, a real nice guy, but every coon he trees, he shoots out. I'd bet there ain't 20 coons, within a 5 mile radius of my home. I am happy M Johnson, that you have to kill 100 coons to your dog, to get it to tree. I don't know how many pups you have raised, but the super dogs do not grow on trees. I have only raised, one pup, that placed in the UKC World hunt, and i would not call him a super pup, but at 8 weeks of age he would sit on his butt, and chop steady on an old dried up coon hide. And is still today the most pressure proof tree dog of any breed, that i have ever hunted. And MS Johnson, if i had a hundred coons to shoot out, i could have trained at least 20 dogs. I gave a pup to a friend of mine, he was out of the above dogs first litter, he called him, Brummie, at 5 months's of age he had it all, hunted good, stayed treed good, with a real mouth, the best pup, out of any breed, i had seen go. And the word stupid, was the nicest thing, i could think of. Any way from now on, i will be selective, about who gets my pups, i don't need the money, i'm not a rich guy, just rich in wisdom. I will continue, to breed the very best, that i can.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

I never said I shot 100 coon to this young dog. As a matter a fact I don't think he has had 6 shot out to him yet. I like them too stay focused on the tree not on a coon falling out of the tree. But that's just me. I have videoed plenty of the coon he treed and put them on face book. I enjoy doing that more than shooting um and I can run and tree them another night.

Ron your post is a excellent observation and some fine advice.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 936

Most of us mere mortals, don't have very many coon, with that kind of numbers, you could teach a Poodle, to tree. The very best puppy, that i ever raised was out of Grnnitech Andys Super Rockin Abbey, and Grnnitech Whitacker's BlackSmokey II, i picked her up at Oaks, at 10 weeks of age. She was a monkey faced, black&tan, one night she was around 5 months old, she was raiseing cain, so i took her with one old dog. The old dog treed a coon, i shot it out, Queen Bess, dived on it, shook it like an old dog, i put it up out of her reach, she hammered every breath, she had never seen a cage coon, hide, tail or been messed with at all. From that night on she'd try to run the track, my old dog would tree a coon, she'd come in there, get up on the tree and hammer, i had to drag her away. One night at 10 months of age she followed, the old dog out to the highway, he had followed, another dog out there, those two made it back, she did not, i felt so bad, i felt like quitting. She only had the one coon, the next day i got on the phone, and found one out of the first cross, she was monkey faced too, she was 14 months old. I showed her coon climb trees, she had never been hunted, from then on, she was a tree hugger, if you have a heavy coon population, you may not notice the difference in regular good bred pups, and those ones that have the extra ability, that we call, Naturals, Super pups.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

I live in south central PA not Ohio. I do feel our coon population is decent. I'm in no way a great coon population and that's also the reason I don't shoot out many coon. The terrain in my area is also ruff enough. Walk to almost every tree.I have some semi flat ground, not much and hills that can take a half hour to walk 100 yards if you're in great physical shape. My area is better than the coal region of Virginia or the big woods of PA but it's never been called a great coon population. I understand the type of pups your talking about. I generally take on a couple pups a year, every year.

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Registered: Jul 2021
Location: Tenn.
Posts: 286

If you have a 10 mth pup thats treed a 100 coons then you have a good coon population.And im sure hes a great pup.Put that same pup down in the areas i have to hunt that wont happen.Even if hes a once in a lifetime super dooper pup.Im not downing your hound or you because you have alot of coons.Good for you.Sure wish i had more.Would make training a hound alot easier.I use to drive up to 200 miles one way to hunt the same dogs id tree a coon or two or none around here to where i could tree 5 to 8 there.Miss those daysMy friend that lived there got old and quit and i got old and dont feel like driving anymore.ha

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 2014

quote:

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Originally posted by JOE H BROOKS
Most of us mere mortals, don't have very many coon, with that kind of numbers, you could teach a Poodle, to tree. The very best puppy, that i ever raised was out of Grnnitech Andys Super Rockin Abbey, and Grnnitech Whitacker's BlackSmokey II, i picked her up at Oaks, at 10 weeks of age. She was a monkey faced, black&tan, one night she was around 5 months old, she was raiseing cain, so i took her with one old dog. The old dog treed a coon, i shot it out, Queen Bess, dived on it, shook it like an old dog, i put it up out of her reach, she hammered every breath, she had never seen a cage coon, hide, tail or been messed with at all. From that night on she'd try to run the track, my old dog would tree a coon, she'd come in there, get up on the tree and hammer, i had to drag her away. One night at 10 months of age she followed, the old dog out to the highway, he had followed, another dog out there, those two made it back, she did not, i felt so bad, i felt like quitting. She only had the one coon, the next day i got on the phone, and found one out of the first cross, she was monkey faced too, she was 14 months old. I showed her coon climb trees, she had never been hunted, from then on, she was a tree hugger, if you have a heavy coon population, you may not notice the difference in regular good bred pups, and those ones that have the extra ability, that we call, Naturals, Super pups.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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