Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 406

I have a very nice female (23mts) out of Clemons dogs ( this dog is VERY tight bred Bam Bam , Slam Bam etc etc) For the first time EVER I have found a female I think is worth breeding. I have lately started looking at stud dogs. I have decided that Huck - a- Buck is an interesting looking dog, but have also heard some good things about Tree Spike. Does anyone own pups from either male? I want something to compliment this female and her faults...which are : Chop mouth on track , locate and tree, want more of a bawl mouth dog, jumps a little more at tree than I like , not radical but what I call " frog hop" and chews a little. other than that just a nice balanced little dog that is a coonhound. Any info would be helpful because I know the Tree Spike dog is getting up there. Would also like Tree Spikes owners name and # if any one has it handy . Thanks in advance

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

I could give you a couple of good tips, close to home if you are indeed from Cental Mo. (i have no reason to believe you are not but I am a skeptic when it comes to message board handles). You might look into the Andy dog that Ultra mag now owns. He has a good bawl mouth, no chew and no "hop". He does go a little deep but probably carries some of the same family of dogs yours does and linebreeding is the way to go. He is there in MO. From what I understand, Ken Breichle has a Nite Champion PKC Champion dog called Taz that is in that area also. He may be too closely related to your female. He is a littermate to the Dual Grand Champion "Goody" dog in Alabama, a good choice if not too close to your female. Another very fine option you should check out is the Rowdy dog of Dave Minson's in Oklahoma. He has a super bawl mouth on the track and there is no "hopping" or chewing with him. You would probably also be line breeding with him but not closely. I wouldn't be afraid of a pup out of any of the 4 dogs I mentioned and a good female.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
Posts: 46

I would sure like for you to consider looking into the Andy dog I now own that Redtick mentioned in his above post. I don't know what part of MO you are in, but I am in the west-central part around Clinton, MO.

Andy is a CH GR. NT. CH. and also a PKC champion. I can furnish you with references on Andy himself and pups that he has sired. You are more than welcome to plan a hunt with Andy and see him go, that way you can see him yourself firsthand. Andy and some of his pups can be seen at my web page (the link is below) and my phone # is also on the site. Feel free to call with any questions you may have.

What part of MO are you from?

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Chad Anders

Hardcore English Kennels

Home of CH GRNITECH PKC CH Johnson's All Out Andy

2004 UKC English Performance Sire


www.angelfire.com/rock3/hardcore_english/

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 119

There are several nice males in Iowa and Nebraska you may want to consider. In Nebraka Dennis Steinhauser has Wilcox Thunder JoJo. Rex Shroder has a litter mate named Taz. In Iowa Ron Thompson has a nice DlGr named Frank or you could breed to my male dog for free. He is NiteCh. GRFCH GRWCH GRCH out of Huck a Buck and Timber Valley lucky. There are plenty others that I wouldn't be afraid to take a good female to.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: IL.
Posts: 1308

Eric,
I have a female that turned 1 in Aug. She's coming along,but still far from a coondog. I saw your ad on Casper in the english yearbook and might be interested in breeding my female to him in the future.You can see this female on my web site.Her name is Ruby. She's out of Ch.GR.NT.CH Johnson's All Out Andy and CH.NT.CH.All Out Jozee. Andy is out of Briar Creek Houdini.Jozee is out of Huck A Buck and Gr.Nt.Rockruns Northridge Zee Zee.
Might make a good cross going back to Snake 3 times and back to Old Sandy several times and the Neuse River stuff too.
Send me an e-mail and tell me what your dog is like if you get a chance.
Thanks

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 406

well gentlemen, thank you for the help.Just drug in from the woods and looked this over. Im from central MO, in Wellsville ( near Columbia) Ive seen some ads on the all out Andy dog. Could you please tell me whats behind him? When I say very tight bred Clemons I mean TIGHT. In fact linebreeding would almost turn to inbreeding on this little gal lol so would prefer to get as far an out cross as I can . I realize that line breeding when done properly can inhance a dogs ability but also can inhance flaws soooooo....just wanting something not too close. Thanks again for all the info.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

I think Martin sent me a video of your female this week. If it is the same dog, she looks real nice and on the video, I didn't see the slight problems you were talking about. Linebreeding depends on the dogs you are linebreeding on. If they are indeed worthy, it is the best way to go. As for Andy, you would look at his papers and say it is a complete outcross. But if you look farther back, you will see the same dogs coming up in his pedigree as would be a little farther back in your dog's pedigree so you may be dealing with the same genes. You would probably get some great pups out of Andy, pups that would win on the bench and more important, out in the woods and they would have all of the bells and whistles that make a dog look classy. Are you going to compete with your female? The tape I saw had her competing with some good dogs and she looked very good.
If Fred Prater is reading this thread, I think she may be out of Gypsy and Little Bam.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
Posts: 46

Here is the 3 generation on Andy. I look forward to talking to you soon. I would also like to know the background of this female and see her in the woods if you think you may be interested in Andy as a sire. This sounds like a cross that I would want a pup or two out of.


-----------------------------------------Gr. Nt. Ch. Briar Cr. Bush Hog

--------------------------------Gr. Nt. Briar Creek Snake

------------------------------------------Gr. Nt. Ch. Briar Cr. Sandy II

------------Gr. Nt. Briar Creek Houdini

-------------------------------------------Gr. Nt. Ch. Campbell's Bluegrass
Amos

--------------------------------NITECH Gr. Ch. Pine Knob Crystal II

--------------------------------------------Dual Grand Pine Knob Crystal

----Andy

------------------------------------------Gr. Nt. Ch. CH Neuse Rvr. Rambo

--------------------------Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Michigan Swamp Rooster

-------------------------------------------Gr. Nt. Ch. Raffle's Billie Joe

-------------Gr. Ch. Memorymaker Mystic Melody

-----------------------------------------Gr. Nt. Ch. Summer's Tenn Woody

--------------------------Nite Ch. Gr. Ch. Cridlin's Red Jill

------------------------------------------'PR' Melody Meadows Liz

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Chad Anders

Hardcore English Kennels

Home of CH GRNITECH PKC CH Johnson's All Out Andy

2004 UKC English Performance Sire


www.angelfire.com/rock3/hardcore_english/

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: IL.
Posts: 1308

I'd go for a male pup from a cross on this female and the Andy dog if it ever happened.
Keep me posted boys!

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
Posts: 46

Rusty would never blow is own horn, but I'll do it for him. LOL Rusty deserves pretty much all the credit (if not all) on Andy's accomplishments. He was born in a friend of Rusty kennels raised and campaigned by Rusty. He finished him out to Grand and me or Rusty have had him all but a little less than a year of his life.

As another note, I have already been thinking this breeding would work good that why I have some of Redtick's breeding here in my kennels already. My plan was just a little backwards of this in that I would have to wait and cross females out of Andy back onto what I hope will be one of the next studs here. (little Bam X Alsome pup)

Dave, since you know of this female already I will assume you are in the know on her breeding. Would a female on this cross cross back onto the male I got from you nicely in your opinion? Or will they be to tight?

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Chad Anders

Hardcore English Kennels

Home of CH GRNITECH PKC CH Johnson's All Out Andy

2004 UKC English Performance Sire


www.angelfire.com/rock3/hardcore_english/

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: IL.
Posts: 1308

I don't deserve much credit.I just bought him as a pup and he came from the good breeding of the past breeders. I just took him to the woods and he did what he was bred to do.I just walked along behind him and enjoyed the ride.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Trussville, Alabama
Posts: 532

Hey ya'll theres a female down here out of the Andy and Jozee cross thats clicking perty good from what I understand. SHe had one set back tho. She got bit in the head by a coon and it got infected. But she's healed up now.

http://flameNenglish.homestead.com/flameNenglish.html
We dont breed for titles. We breed for results.

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"Roper Hill English Kennel"
Owned by:
Randy Langston (Trussville, Alabama)
Home of
GRCH NITECH 'PR' Roper Hill's Smooth Cotton
CH NiteCH 'PR' Roper Hill's Midnite Jenny
'PR' Roper Hills Polly Ester

205-281-6364
205-655-4754
email: jlandrl2@aol.com

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: IL.
Posts: 1308

sometimes I think I have a big infection in my head right between the ears! Don't think it will ever get any better.....ROFL

Good to hear about that female. Hope she turns out nice for whoever owns her.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
Posts: 46

Rusty, I could give ya a shot if you think it would help. Hey casino I'll br outta town for a while, but I'll check back on this when I get back to see if you have any questions.

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Chad Anders

Hardcore English Kennels

Home of CH GRNITECH PKC CH Johnson's All Out Andy

2004 UKC English Performance Sire


www.angelfire.com/rock3/hardcore_english/

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 406

It may have been Dixie in the video. I dont know but Fred Prater is the breeder and yes, Little Bam and Jamming Gypsy are sire and dam! You seem to know your stuff lol! Ok ped. follows but Im sure you ll know whats coming up. I dont plan on breeding her until next year and hope to have some titles on her by then. She was sold as a started dog and we have been working to fine tune her. We have gotten her going now on her own to rule out any me too junk and as far as chewing and jumping it depends on the track and what company shes in. She doesnt fly up the tree and fall all over the other dogs, she just hops around a little. I have and prefer dogs that either sit, or stand and tree, or when on the wood just lay that chest up there and go to it. Shes a nice little dog that we fell over and lucked out on purchase. Would love to have you come go hunting anytime! got some nice places to hunt and are on good terms with the local game warden lmao. thanks again and yes, I'll email to arrange a hunt with Andy.
Gr Nt Ch Treeing Bambam---nt ch Bam Bam X Gr NT Grc Old Sandy
GrNt Ch Clemons Treeing Little Bam
Postells Old Sandy ll---Nt Ch Timberstar BuddyXGrNt Ch Old Sandy

Camps Casino Deep South Dixie

Gr NT CH Treeing Slam Bam Bam--Gr NT Clemons Treeing Bambam X Nt Ch Clemons Treeing Penny
Nt Ch Praters Jamming Gypsy
Sweet Chops Missy---Gr NT Ch Hardwood Uncle Sam X Gayhearst Little Ann

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 42

Casino, I am glad someone like you has got Dixie. She just turned 2yrs old the 19 of September and should make you a real nice dog. Her mother, Jamming Gypsy is a real comp dog with one win toward grand. She would of been grand but the guy I sold her to has had her laid up the last two years and not hunting her. Dixie has two aunts that are nite ch, one got stolen the other has 4 wins toward grand. I know were a sister and two more brothers of hers are. they are doing a good job.
As far as breeding her, I wouldnt rule out the Andy dog. I dont know how he hunts, but I read on the message board he is throwing some nice young dogs. I would probably breed her to a hound with a good bawl mouth and a good nose. I wouldnt breed her to a real hard tree dog. Just my opinion. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Keep me informed.

Fred Prater

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Trussville, Alabama
Posts: 532

I hunted with the Andy dog several times. What I saw was nice Bawl track mouth, Steady chop on the tree. Can drift a track out nicely, You have to get him off a tree and he'll have the meat. Gets in the dark and gets treed. Gives just enough track mouth to keep the strike open, but not so much as to call all the dogs over. Would rather split tree I think, but will tree with other dogs, no nonsence on the tree. No jumping, no running, no head slinging, just front feet on the wood with a steady chop, if things get pushy, he's backed up 5ft sitting on his rear looking up chopping away.
Thats what I saw.

http://flameNenglish.homestead.com/flameNenglish.html

P.S. Ultramag, you can get my address from Rusty, I'll be looking for the check....lol

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"Roper Hill English Kennel"
Owned by:
Randy Langston (Trussville, Alabama)
Home of
GRCH NITECH 'PR' Roper Hill's Smooth Cotton
CH NiteCH 'PR' Roper Hill's Midnite Jenny
'PR' Roper Hills Polly Ester

205-281-6364
205-655-4754
email: jlandrl2@aol.com

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1318

Rusty, Ultra Mag, and Houndster, I don't doubt that Andy is one fine hound, another worth mentioning is Allen Gastons Warrior dog, this hound is winning in both UKC and PKC and I'm sure your all aware of him, and he's sure worth considering to cross to with some of these females. I know Rusty thinks alot of Allen and Warrior, Allen is about a nice a guy as you could ask for and packs a coonhound, I look forward to seeing him in a couple of weeks in Aurora.

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Pzazz!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: southern ohio
Posts: 45

stanley nichols owns spike.I have a 3yr old off him i like a ton.I have also hunted with several other nice dogs from him.Super good guy and spikes reproduction % is in the top 10.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: IL.
Posts: 1308

Ray is right about Allen and his Warrior dog. Both are first class and I wouldn't be afraid of pups from Warrior.
I don't own the Andy dog anymore ( wish I did).I don't want to be the type to talk about another mans dog,but I just got updates today on some dogs out of Andy.One is a nt.ch. with 2 wins towards grand. Another is a nt.ch. One has 2 first place wins in very few hunts.Another has 2 fourth place cast wins in very few hunts. I know of 3 that have bench titles.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1318

Rusty, sounds like he's doing alright in his own reproducing abilities. Thats great I'm happy for you and Ultra Mag, its good to see a good dog of any breed do well.

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Pzazz!

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: KY
Posts: 780

THE RAPPER DOG IS STARTING TO TURN SOME HEADS

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

Fred didn't mention that Martin Clemons has a littermate to Gypsy that is almost a Dual Grand, Anne. I think she may be 1 Nite Hunt win away from finishing. She is sucking pups by Martin's Dual Grand Bam Bam II dog. So those pups will be bred almost the same as the Dixie female except the sires are full brothers and the dams are littermates.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: owensville indiana
Posts: 30

dont forget stoney

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
Posts: 46

Have you guys hunted with Mr. Gaston's Warrior hound. I have heard talk, but don't personally know anyone that has been with him unless Rusty has. Gotta be doing something right, top 4 in his state in PKC I believe. Either of you guys know how he is bred? He might throw Andy a sweet, young, little girl friend. LOL

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Chad Anders

Hardcore English Kennels

Home of CH GRNITECH PKC CH Johnson's All Out Andy

2004 UKC English Performance Sire


www.angelfire.com/rock3/hardcore_english/

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