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gdjr
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: Andover Ohio
Posts: 198

What rule???

What rule says that Miney should have been scratched? I can't find anything that says to scratch for turning loose at the wrong time??

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Old Post 09-26-2021 11:59 AM
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Sshinaberry85
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Registered: Dec 2017
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After being scored, dog shall not be released until another dog
struck in on track, or on tree, opens.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 01:23 PM
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Sshinaberry85
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Registered: Dec 2017
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After being scored, dog shall not be released until another dog
struck in on track, or on tree, opens.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 01:23 PM
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JB Cobb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 764

My 2 cents... I don’t know the situation nor do I know anyone involved...but I figure it happed 1 of 2 ways.....1 dog was pulled off tree and the judge told him NOT to cut and he did so anyway. If that’s what happened he needed to be scratched.... 2 the dog was led off tree and the 8 was applied a dog barks and the nervous handler cuts the dog a half second before the judge says so. If it happened this way all involved should be ashamed... NO advantage could have possibly been gained for cutting the dog a half second early. These guys have worked their whole life to get in this position..it’s understandable they would be both excited and nervous..for the life of me why would you not warn the handler and allow the dog to compete...

Last edited by JB Cobb on 09-26-2021 at 02:49 PM

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Old Post 09-26-2021 01:27 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Because they were hunting for $10,000.
Did the Judge scratch the dog and its handler question the scratch or did the Judge not scratch the dog and another handler question the dog not being scratched?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 09-26-2021 at 01:58 PM

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delta slough
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: sunflower, ms.
Posts: 341

What is the rule number used? Thanks,Jr.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 02:06 PM
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GCH Viper
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 105

Just my two cents here guys… I would love to know what the actual situation was.
If they pulled off a scored tree and we’re working time on a dog or two out on track I would say he cast his dog as soon as he heard a dog open. I may be wrong but I don’t read the rules for any of the kc’s where they require you to wait for a judge to tell you to cut.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 04:32 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Scratch was questioned and taken back to a highly knowledgeable and disinterested panel who had the rulebook and heard first hand accounts of what happened. They discussed it and upheld the scratch.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 04:47 PM
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david kelly
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2012
Location: kentucky
Posts: 76

Two cents

Don't know why they scratched the dog ,but she was kicking their butts,and the best dog in the cast did not win , winning on technically don't make you a world champion

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Old Post 09-26-2021 04:48 PM
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ClayBottom11
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 156

Would be nice to have an official statement on what happened just to clear up the confusion and speculation. Seems like a great topic for the next advisor column.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 04:53 PM
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Dogwhisper
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1745

I've experienced this "tactic" done before.....
My dog and another dog coming off a scored tree.... waiting to be told by the non hunting judge to release the dog(s) ....just to find out that the other handler had already released his dog......in that cast that handler wasn't scratched ..perhapsed he should of been.....imo this wasnt/isn't a mistake........"option to cut" needs tweaking

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Old Post 09-26-2021 05:00 PM
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elvis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Scratch was questioned and taken back to a highly knowledgeable and disinterested panel who had the rulebook and heard first hand accounts of what happened. They discussed it and upheld the scratch.
who was on this highly knowledgeable panel?

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Old Post 09-26-2021 06:30 PM
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AndyMiller
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: sugarcreekohio
Posts: 1347

when you line up your hounds to cast ussually the judge asks ya,ll ready if they say yes u cut at the judes call ...cut em...IMO this would be the same miney was cut b 4 the judge applied cast her

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Old Post 09-26-2021 07:14 PM
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JB Cobb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 764

quote:
Originally posted by AndyMiller
when you line up your hounds to cast ussually the judge asks ya,ll ready if they say yes u cut at the judes call ...cut em...IMO this would be the same miney was cut b 4 the judge applied cast her


Common sense MUST play some role here.. if this is the way it happened I warn the handler and if happened again maybe so... but come on the handlers error would have played NO part in the outcome of this cast... guys this is the World coonhound Championship for goodness sakes... Let them compete !! It wasn’t like he was shocking his dog or having someone in the woods helping him gain an advantage.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 07:31 PM
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Tug18
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 71

Way the scores was, wasnt a reason to be in a rush to cut her loose. Nobody but the handler screwed up. Complain about the ruling all you want, but if he had done right there wouldnt have been a question. Doesnt matter what hunt your in, rules are there to be followed, no matter how piddly that one is.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 08:10 PM
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delta slough
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: sunflower, ms.
Posts: 341

Once again, can anyone tell me the rule number and letter that caused this handler to get scratched?

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Old Post 09-26-2021 08:25 PM
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Night Shift
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 879

I was there and I will say this Jerald handled himself as a professional for being in such a bad situation. I’ve never had any interactions with him before but you can learn a lot about a man in a situation like that. That being said as we were walking out he asked what I thought would happen and I said you’re going to be scratched. He took it with as much dignity as a man could.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 08:25 PM
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lonesomedog1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 241

Just at a guess nothing would have been said if miney would have been behind instead of being a head by 300. IMO

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Old Post 09-26-2021 08:33 PM
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elvis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

quote:
Originally posted by Night Shift
I was there and I will say this Jerald handled himself as a professional for being in such a bad situation. I’ve never had any interactions with him before but you can learn a lot about a man in a situation like that. That being said as we were walking out he asked what I thought would happen and I said you’re going to be scratched. He took it with as much dignity as a man could.
ok you were there. Tell us exactly what happened.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 08:50 PM
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Night Shift
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 879

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
ok you were there. Tell us exactly what happened.

I was standing to far back to hear. But the Judge didn’t scratch him. Him cutting his dog and jumping on the dog to catch it was questioned by another handler. Panel of Master hounds determined he was scratched.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 09:17 PM
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Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1187

quote:
Originally posted by Night Shift
I was there and I will say this Jerald handled himself as a professional for being in such a bad situation. I’ve never had any interactions with him before but you can learn a lot about a man in a situation like that. That being said as we were walking out he asked what I thought would happen and I said you’re going to be scratched. He took it with as much dignity as a man could.


I have had very little dealings with him myself , but can only say he seems to be a man of integrity. I can see him taking it well and not blaming everyone else like many would/do. Even without winning that cast , we all know how good his dog is and I feel miney will many more casts.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 09:20 PM
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BAS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2020
Location: SE GA
Posts: 97

What rule??

I would like to know what rule was used to put the dog out of the hunt.

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Old Post 09-26-2021 09:35 PM
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elvis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

So he cut the dog and then the judge told him not to so he jumped on the dog and caught it. That sounds to me like the most micky mouse cheap shot bs way to scratch the cast leader Ive ever heard of. Which handler wanted him scratched and who was on the panel who did it?

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Old Post 09-26-2021 09:55 PM
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Night Shift
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 879

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
So he cut the dog and then the judge told him not to so he jumped on the dog and caught it. That sounds to me like the most micky mouse cheap shot bs way to scratch the cast leader Ive ever heard of. Which handler wanted him scratched and who was on the panel who did it?
It doesn’t matter if you think the rule sucks it just matters that it’s a rule in the book 11D. Three ukc field reps made the call and I knew before he left the woods he was scratched. I don’t like parking meters but I still obey the law. I would of been upset with the situation but like I said I didn’t hear what the judge said to make him think he could cut loose. I just heard the judge say no no no then running and jumping on a dog. t🤷🏻‍♂️

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Last edited by Night Shift on 09-26-2021 at 10:06 PM

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Old Post 09-26-2021 10:03 PM
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medicman_stark
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Water Valley, MS
Posts: 186

quote:
Originally posted by JB Cobb
Common sense MUST play some role here.. if this is the way it happened I warn the handler and if happened again maybe so... but come on the handlers error would have played NO part in the outcome of this cast... guys this is the World coonhound Championship for goodness sakes... Let them compete !! It wasn’t like he was shocking his dog or having someone in the woods helping him gain an advantage.



He was at the clubhouse.

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