Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Okay.. Per rules you could not score on box traps...delete or dead game...delete.

So I am going back over some old Advisors and came upon this answer that got me thinking...Huh???
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Just pasted important parts:

As published in the March 2018 issue of Coonhound Bloodlines
Strange Encounter
Q: In a Registered cast, we had all four dogs declared struck. They all struck in the same area, but never went anywhere. We kept running the eight minutes on them, but every now and then wed get a bark to break the eight.
Lo and behold, we found our dogs barking and nibbling on a dead deer carcass. The deer had obviously been dead for a day or two.How should we have handled this situation in terms of scoring them?
A:We can eliminate the most probable common suggestions that do not apply, off game, molesting livestock, calling time out and delete points. We eliminate off game because its a dead animal. The only two options are to: 1) leave them be and hope they get out of there on their own and the eight-minute clock doesn't get them, or; 2) go on in, handle them, and take your minus per Rule 4 (e) {calling dogs off trail}. I'd lean towards the latter
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Now I could agree that if the eight got them to minus the strike but going in and finding them on a DEAD carcass and minus them ??
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Per rules interpretations :
You cant score coons in live traps or in a cage behind some ones barn. It means you cant score dead coons, All are deleted .

It has been ruled ; If a live trap dogs are baying has off game you delete.

Copied and pasted from Advisor:

Scoring Dead or Caught Game
Q: What is the proper procedure for scoring each of the following situations?
1. Dogs baying a coon in a live trap.
2. Dogs treed, bayed on a dead coon.
3. Dogs carrying a dead coon in to cast.
A: It has always been UKC’s policy that when a scoring situation ends with a coon that has been found or treed already dead, or a coon in a live trap or a live coon that somebody has in a pen behind the house, that those points are deleted.
The logic is simple. You can’t take coons in live traps and set them around the property you will be hunting that night to score on them. Nor could you simply hang fresh killed coon in trees in an attempt to score them. Since it’s not really a circle point situation - because a “coon” is seen, and because circle points count in tie breakers - we have always advised that those points are to be deleted.

May Advisor .Off game in a live trap
It is also UKC's position that the game being held in the trap or cage does not make any difference

Pertinent parts As published in Advisor :
Dog Catches Possum But Never Opened
Q: During a UKC nite hunt, one of the dogs came back to the cast members carrying a possum in its mouth.obvious that the dog had caught and killed it. The dog in question that brought the possum back was not declared struck
A: I guess its a good example of how a dog can molest off game without a bark.this situation the dog was not declared struck, therefore it has no strike points to minus
Champion rules calls for dog(s) to be scratched.
The only exception to that would be if it is determined that it is an old stiff road kill possum that the dog didn't actually molest, instead just picked it up and brought it back to show his master what he found.
In other words, use the same logic as not awarding plus strike points for dogs that would carry in roadkill that happened to be a coon.

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SOOO, Why does a dead bayed deer make a difference? How could you minus if you pull them off a deer carcass as opposed to a long ago dead opossum or long ago dead coon ??

I really hope Allen chimes in on this with an explanation.

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-04-2019 at 11:07 PM

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Over 400 hits. No one got an answer?
Even the powers that be no reply .
Sometimes wishes do come true!

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2622

Pat, this is how I see it, I could be wrong but here goes.

Your not minusing the dog because of the dead deer, the were either minused for the "8" catching them, or the handlers calling them off the track. The dog that brings in a dead fresh possum would be minused/scratched for off game. If it's a roadkill the bring in, they would be minused for quitting their track. If they're not struck and they bring in road kill, then you have to leave them be and hope they drop it and go tree some coon.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Thanks for trying.
Original question says 8 never got the dogs.

Per rules you can not score on box traps...delete or dead game...delete.

And this is a direct quote from Advisor saying delete points on an animal not freshly killed .

"The only exception to that would be if it is determined that it is an "... old stiff road kill possum..." that the dog didn't actually molest, instead just picked it up and brought it back to show his master what he found."

" It has always been UKC’s policy that when a...... scoring situation ends with a coon that has been found or treed …..already dead,..... or a coon in a live trap or a live coon that somebody has in a pen behind the house, that those ……...points are deleted. "

My understanding from everything written is you can not score on old dead game. No plus , no minus, no circle.
All points get deleted.
Which brings up my original question... why was the one option answer given to minus these dogs.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-05-2019 at 01:05 AM

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