Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Shepherdsville, KY
Posts: 610

I have been listening to more complaints than usual about how easy it is to grand a dog. I’ve even heard people say they are never going to hunt in Ukc anymore due to the recent changes. To each his own and every kennel club is not for everybody. But I do not think I’ve heard very many people describe what they think it should take to be a grand night? Maybe I missed it? I do not think for one that there is a perfect way. You are always going to have dogs that make it and shouldn’t and those that should that don’t make it for one reason or the other. I am not one to get philosophical although I did sit in a philosophy class in college because of a good-looking girl, but what would be the best way to prove a dog should be a grand night? Should you have to win a major event? Was the old way the best way? We’re longer hunts the best way? I like a good debate and I’m not trying to trash anybody’s thoughts or opinions but at the end of the day should we just shut up and hunt? If the argument is too many grand nights are being bred just for titles it is the breeders responsibility not anyone else in my opinion. I will try to grand dogs I feel are worthy however UKC sees fit and support my local club regardless because I feel that this sport is an important one rich with tradition. So, What is your thought on what should constitute a grand night?

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I am waiting to see how it turns out the grntchs hunting against the ntchs I noticed at the major hunts they are still giving placements. I liked back in the day having non hunting judges as you move up in the champion classes it's a disadvantage to judge and call your dog and keep the peace between handlers.



Tar

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12262

Win 13 cast with plus points under the rules that are set by UKC, pretty simple.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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I can do it in 11.



Tar

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12262

Last year I did it in 8.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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quote:

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Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Last year I did it in 8.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Always got to one up me lol.


Tar

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T.Osborne..Homemade Kennels!
Home Of.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean 11/28/03 - 4/14/14.
GrNtCh Big Money
GrNtCh North Mt Mort
GrChGrNtCh T&R’s Homemade Trouble

GrNtChGrCh Homemade Josie.
Homemade Tank.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel (SEMEN)
GrNtChGrCh Tj's Stylish Lipper (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Nite Life Pay Dirt (SEMEN)
GrNtCh PKC Ch Poison Smoke (SEMEN)


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Newton N.C
2010 SETWA BREEDER OF THE YEAR!!
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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I ain't got nothing to do with that !! You know who did that !! They make me pay a fee to talk on here lol.



Tar

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5738

You are getting a bargain at any price! Lol. Dave

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Lol I know ! I am just ready for warm weather.



Tar

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 400

If everyone is that dead set on making it tougher; maybe they should look at something like they do for the retrievers. To make Grand Hunting Retriever Ch. a dog must accumulate 200 Championship points after it makes Ch. It is also required to have 2 passes (they don't compete against each other but rather against a standard) at a hunt which is called a Grand. There are only 2 of these a year, one in spring and another in the fall. A dog is required to already be a Champion to even qualify. I think only about 5 to 10% of the dogs make it through all 5 days. They could require a Nite Ch. degree to enter and only host 2 or 3 of these hunts per year.

That should really give y'all something to debate. And NO, I don't really think it needs to become the standard. Just a debate to show that it could be made tough enough that very few dogs would ever make it.

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Lovilia, IA
Posts: 369

I've always thought that way back when ole Joe and Sam both had hounds. One night Joe said I guarentee my dog can out run your dog on a coon. So Joe and Sam went to the timber to see who could out run who. In the old days they didnt want a dog that would split a mile deep to burn up hunting time. They wanted a dog that could push a track faster than the others and get to the tree first. I love going to comp hunts I go to as many in a year as I can make. If I grand my dog great if I dont fine. I go because I love to hunt with other people and listen to storys at the clubhouses. I even attend when i dont have a dog to hunt and find a cast to spectate on. Grand night is just a title it dont make them a coondog.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Why does everyone want to make it harder for a dog to make Gr Nt Ch? Why do they want to limit the number of Gr Nt Ch's? Why do y'all want to try to force someone to go to more hunts to make their dog a Gr Nt Ch? Does winning 8 casts make one dog better than one that wins 5 casts? Or does it only mean it's owner had the time and money to go to more hunts? At what point will most hunters start saying that it isn't worth it and quit and not even try to make their dog a Gr Nt?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 03-02-2019 at 01:15 PM

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Registered: Feb 2005
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Posts: 1745

I call it creative accounting. JMO.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12262

Asking for a friend, he had a young Female with 5 cast wins but no 1st. She got killed on the road in December will she be a NtCh after Jan 1st 2019?

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T.Osborne..Homemade Kennels!
Home Of.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean 11/28/03 - 4/14/14.
GrNtCh Big Money
GrNtCh North Mt Mort
GrChGrNtCh T&R’s Homemade Trouble

GrNtChGrCh Homemade Josie.
Homemade Tank.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel (SEMEN)
GrNtChGrCh Tj's Stylish Lipper (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Nite Life Pay Dirt (SEMEN)
GrNtCh PKC Ch Poison Smoke (SEMEN)


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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

If he never sent the papers in as dead yep !!



Tar

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Why does everyone want to make it harder for a dog to make Gr Nt Ch? Why do they want to limit the number of Gr Nt Ch's? Why do y'all want to try to force someone to go to more hunts to make their dog a Gr Nt Ch? Does winning 8 casts make one dog better than one that wins 5 casts? Or does it only mean it's owner had the time and money to go to more hunts? At what point will most hunters start saying that it isn't worth it and quit and not even try to make their dog a Gr Nt? [/QUOTE

Oh come on Richard, anyone who gives up on titling a dog in UKC today either didn't have much dog to start with or has very little, if any, determination. It is easier to Grand a dog today than ever in the history of UKC. Heck, you can't even win a hunt anymore, it's just cast wins. The emphasis on WINNING has been replaced by the 1 in 4 chance to beat three dogs.
Titles have become less prestigious than ever, to the point where the only one who cares if a dog titles is the dogs owner.
Cliff Owens post about the bird dog titles makes a lot of sense to me. UKC should have developed a title that wasn't just about racking up a high number of cheap and easy cast wins, but a title that was tough enough that only a small percentage of the best would be capable of achieving it.
But of course UKC would never go for such a tough challenge because so few have enough dog and so few are willing to accept such a tough challenge that it would not be profitable. And of course profit is always the main thing.

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Last edited by JiM on 03-02-2019 at 02:59 PM

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Jim, are you actually saying that it is "easy" to beat 3 other dogs who are trying just as hard as you are to title their dog 13 times? Do you really think that they are all just going to let you win? If only a small percentage of the very best can obtain that title, then how many hunters do you think will even attempt it? And if only a small percentage attempt it, will they really be the "best"? Or will they be the ones who's owners have the time and money to attempt it? Won't making it harder exclude a lot of the dogs and handlers from even attempting? Won't that cut way back on entries?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 03-02-2019 at 03:17 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1609

You get a Trophy for each time you participate in a hunt and after so many hunts you trade them in for a Title?

Maybe that’s the next rule change. After almost 65 years of following hounds I have yet to hunt with a hound who knows they are Titled, which is nice but the problem is the handler sure will let you know!! So I guess in a normal night of hunting——if I don’t know, the hound doesn’t know and the coon doesn’t care—will the hunt end any different?

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Isn't all of this pure speculation? Does anyone really know how the new format changes will affect the number or quality of titled dogs? Weren't there already a number of Gr Nt Ch dogs that didn't deserve that title? And whether there were too little or too many is a matter of personal opinion. Actually, unless someone has a Crystal ball we don't really know how the changes will effect the number or quality of titled dogs.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Jim, are you actually saying that it is "easy" to beat 3 other dogs who are trying just as hard as you are to title their dog 13 times? Do you really think that they are all just going to let you win? If only a small percentage of the very best can obtain that title, then how many hunters do you think will even attempt it? And if only a small percentage attempt it, will they really be the "best"? Or will they be the ones who's owners have the time and money to attempt it? Won't making it harder exclude a lot of the dogs and handlers from even attempting? Won't that cut way back on entries?

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Isn't all of this pure speculation? Does anyone really know how the new format changes will affect the number or quality of titled dogs? Weren't there already a number of Gr Nt Ch dogs that didn't deserve that title? And whether there were too little or too many is a matter of personal opinion. Actually, unless someone has a Crystal ball we don't really know how the changes will effect the number or quality of titled dogs.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Last edited by JiM on 03-02-2019 at 04:40 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Dang Jim you up and went and made me proud of you !


Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

In the past, winning the Champion class just meant that you were lucky enough to draw the best guide. It had nothing to do with the best dog. I thought that changing the format was done to take the guide advantage and plusing all of the circle trees out of nite hunts. I didn't realize that it was done to make titles easier to obtain.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12262

Tar didn’t you push an push for this? You even complained when the rules changed to cast winners, said UKC only did that to cut back on paper work.

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T.Osborne..Homemade Kennels!
Home Of.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean 11/28/03 - 4/14/14.
GrNtCh Big Money
GrNtCh North Mt Mort
GrChGrNtCh T&R’s Homemade Trouble

GrNtChGrCh Homemade Josie.
Homemade Tank.
GrNtCh Hardwood Bean (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Abbotts Bawling Rebel (SEMEN)
GrNtChGrCh Tj's Stylish Lipper (SEMEN)
GrNtCh Nite Life Pay Dirt (SEMEN)
GrNtCh PKC Ch Poison Smoke (SEMEN)


HomeMade Kennels
Newton N.C
2010 SETWA BREEDER OF THE YEAR!!
(828) 302-5480

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