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At larger shows or national shows would you like to see a 3 judge panel or 1 judge

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I gave been a bench show judge for almost 34 years. At larger shows or shows with meaning, I have always asked to have a 3 person panel for King and Queen of show. No club has ever refused my request.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by harleydan1956
I gave been a bench show judge for almost 34 years. At larger shows or shows with meaning, I have always asked to have a 3 person panel for King and Queen of show. No club has ever refused my request.

---

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Some statements just make me say HUH. SO with a statement that was made am I to deduct that a event that has a single judge that judge WILL not pick the best dog, OR you saying all judges are crooked and when you put three crooks together then the best dog will win?
Just asking. And let me further say if you have been showing dogs for say twenty years or more and are showing on the big stage winning in those events for that many years there are not many judges that don't know you or you don't know them SO what does that make that person if they are selected to judge?. Just asking again
AS yawl can tell went hunting last night and it SUCKED. DOG ran behind treed a possun slicked treed and then treed a coon. WHEW had to vent to someone.

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Lets say the bench show is conducted like a night hunt YOU KNOW all 4 in a cast has a say then ALL breeds in the show has a say then those ALL pick a winner LOOKS like that is better than three then you would have a cluster just like a three judge panel can have, See if you don't understand how a three judge panel works then you may not know all of the story.

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Last edited by H. L. Meyer on 02-15-2018 at 01:11 PM

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I'd rather see a three judge panel as a certain judge from southern Illinois that I won't mention .lol

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 2605

Ok. Why I do it. I come from an area that has many show people that have placed or won the Grand American, Winter Classic, Breed Days and National GR SH CH at AO, World show.. you get the idea. I am friends with most. The last thing I want people to say is " old so and so is gonna win, they are friends". I don't want that reputation.
Most clubs know me as as honest as possible Bench Show judge. You are asking for a judges opinion. Nothing more. My opinion might be angulation and back are more important than feet and head. Another judge may look for chest and angulation.
So, several opinions will help. Each of 3 votes count, discuss and award the winner. If you think you get 3 crooks together, why waste time, just award it yourself. A panel just gives options to look at. King, Queen, Pairs.. anything UKC doesn't sanction....
Remember, this is my opinion only, but it has worked for me for many, many years.

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Lethal Blue kennels.
Where the females count and you will never see a "brood" female!
Dan and Kris Rosier
Canton, ohio
330-904-3392


Home of: Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Lil Bit of Respect.... Ch. Nite Ch PR Shivers' Magic Lead X GR. Ch. Nite Ch PR Lethal Blue Betty Jane
PR. Lethal Blue Tayen Grace..... Nite Ch. Pr Coffins creek running J.R. X Gr Ch Nite Ch PR Lethal Blue Moonlite Serenade.
PR. Lethal Blue Jane's Mini Me... Dual Gr. Ch. Twin Springs Running Bullet II X Ch. Lethal.Blue Lil Bit of Respect.



Gone but never forgotten
Gr Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Moonlight Serenade... Gr. Ch. Nite Ch PR Hillbillys Smokey River Dutch HTX X Gr. Ch. Nite CH. PR Lethal Blue Izabell Sitara

Gr. Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Izabell Sitara... Dual Gr. Ch PR Bowens Blue Deuce X Ch. Nite Ch. PR Becky.

Gr Ch Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Betty Jane...... PR. Crites Soggy Bottom Blue Banjo X PR. Mosquito Creek Tree mamma Sis

Gr Ch. Nite Ch. PR. Lethal Blue Rattlin Samantha ... Dual Gr Ch PR Mid Ohio Rattlin Sam X Gr Ch PR. Lethal Blue Jet's Xena

Gr. Ch. Nite Ch Hillbilly's Smokey River Blue Dutch HTX..... Gr. Ch. Gr. Nite Ch Pr. Smokey River Tramp's Blue Lake and Pr. Misty River Blue Doll III.
(Dutch wasn't ours, but he was here and like one of the family)

Pr. Dan's little Porter.... my last beagle...

Last edited by harleydan1956 on 02-15-2018 at 02:19 PM

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Southern Illinois Covers a lot of area.

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I totally understand of having one judge but ! Some people will check out to see who is judging a dog show and not go just because that one person or if they have had bad dealings with them before and as far choosing a judge who has won many events on the big stage it could be good ? It could be bad ? At the end of the day the judge has to live with there picks. unfortunately and sad to say not everyone amongst us is honest and wants the best dog to win i have the greatest respect for mr Meyer I showed against him 25 plus years always had some very fine Black and Tans but Mr Meyer have you ever lost a show and thought the judge made a bad pick ? it’s not always a fair pick verses a panel system not saying there always fair either but after the show if I lost I’d feel much better being told no by 3 than 1 pretty much instead of paying for one persons opinion your paying for three and a better chance of having the best dog win. Winter classic 20xx one of the judges traveled to Albany with a handler who ended up winning quite a. It that year there. Not only was this hound chosen the handler and judge shared a room and was eating dinner that following evening together I did not show due to my female being in season 2 days before but kinda felt bad for everyone there that day who lost and never even got a 2nd look. I won best of show female at autumn oaks last year when I really felt my female was not the best on the bench/ground some breed shows have and use the panel system and as well as Purina nationals and several more. Example let’s say my ex wife was judging oaks as she has in the past. I’m pretty sure if I had the greatest hound to ever walk the earth she would not pick it just a little of why I am in favor of a panel

Last edited by Kanen r23 on 02-16-2018 at 06:23 AM

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Just as I suspected. OPINIONS! yours and theirs. A show is only as good as the dogs in it and the judge. YOU PAID AN ENTRY FEE to get THAT ONE JUDGES OPINION for that day. Every judge is looking for that one little thing they consider to be the deciding thing. As you stated before, you won, but in your opinion you should not have. Guess what? It wasn't your opinion that counted that day. Be glad of it and move on. Panels could work, if they all are judge qualified, but just like the hunt director panels, anyone an sit on them and make judgments. Sad thing is they don't have to be qualified or even have a clue what they are doing to make that decision. Believe me, the show folks want none of that arena. They have enough squabbles as it is now.

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Registered: Sep 2003
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Sure have NOT!!!! BECAUSE it was his /hers OPINION that never swayed my opinion about my dogs qualities.
Another thing WHO really cares. This showing thing is nothing more than a money pit with making friends thrown in or hanging out with a bunch of crooks. and by the way be CAREFUL who is labeled a CROOKED JUDGE you may be wearing those shoes some day and then what will that make you in their eyes.
OPINIONS........... is what makes the world go round and a judges pick is ONLY their OPINION NOT FACT
And by your own admission if that person was on a 3 judge panel you would not even make the card SO there U go out again.

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Last edited by H. L. Meyer on 02-16-2018 at 02:52 PM

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I’d feel worse about losing under three different judges at the same time then just one...

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OPINION???BULL****!!!
Dogs are to be judged as to how well they conform to their BREED STANDARD AND CORRECTNESS!!!!!

NOT MY OPINION..THAT IS A WORE OUT AGE OLD EXCUSE FOR POOR JUDGING...PERIOD!!

H.L you been around the show ring long enough to have seen it all. You, of most should know favoritism exists ,does, and will happen.

I posted on here a few years ago .Got reamed by Alan but the truth is the truth when it is staring you in the face.

I have seen dogs that were over height standard ,flat back Black and Tans, dogs that were so straight they should not even be winning at national levels continue to win show after show and were selected as National Grand At A.O. and the world show.
One year at A.O every winner chosen was absolutely straight in the hind legs. I got so disgusted I left .I about puked watching it was so disgusting.
Another year I showed a female that was absolutely one of the toughest show dogs I have owned. It came down to her and a "well known" handler. I got beat. I had no less than 3 people that were regulars in the show ring back then tell me what I did wrong.
It was the handler. I am like ,What? It was the handler.
Really ,what did I do wrong?
Answer. You don't understand ..If someone else was showing her she would have won.
It turned me off to waste my time or money to even pay to show at larger shows.

With the recent seminars I honestly can say I saw a "HUGE" improvement on recognition of the proper form of our coonhounds and standards.
Everyone can make mental errors or close call picks. That is not my complaint.

When a judge picks dogs because "THEY LIKE" ..compact dogs.. flat back dogs...dogs that are straight in the back...straight in the front....long rangy types.. houndy dogs...racy dogs...thick chest.. narrow chest.. heavy or thin types.... or they are winning every where else ,I have to pick this one... or ..last but not least because of who is behind the dog.
They are "NOT" judging to breed standards but are judging to what they "LIKE!!!!" AND BIAS!!

How many times have anyone of you your self said ...I won't show under so and so because they like a______________ fill in the blank type dog?
BECAUSE IT IS TRUE!!!
If it is not true why are all the bigger show chasers always wanting to know what judge will be judging that day?

Would a three judge panel keep it honest? Maybe.
If they did a 3..2..1 pick. Could not confer with each other. Hand the selections to an impartial person to announce the winner .Yes ,quite possibly.
Each one would be wondering if their pick is the same as the other two and would not want to look bias by picking the "OTHER" dog .LOL.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 02-16-2018 at 03:43 PM

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I have took way more tongue lashings for the way I have judged a show than how I moh a hunt thing is I try to pick a dog that looks like it could hold up under a hard hunting. Thing about it is when the show dog people chew you out then they grab their shampoo and brushes and head to Olive Garden to eat you ain't got to worry about them hunting. They are harder to get along with than the hunters.





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The major shows have become a joke all it is is Friends picking friends and then you see them out eating dinner together anyone that is an active show person should not be allowed to be a judge 3 panel judging would be the way to go

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Same way as master of hounds their title holds no value they picked judges at major events that don't even know the rules because it's their friend

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Took a tong lashing there. well all i am going to say is this
1- all judges are not crooks
2- Unless you have a template like nascar does so you can put it over them and they fit or don't fit.
3- NO dog is perfect so there you go
4- OPINION what else could it be your opinion is one dog meets the breed standards better than the other ones
Traveled to Batesville to attend a seminar conducted by then head knocker of U K C sat and listen with great interest so I could have my name on a preferred list of judges ( remember if not on the list U could and would not be considered to judge one of the major events). At the end of the presentation his statement was this QUOTE after all is taken into consideration it comes down to your HONEST opinion on which dog is the winner. On the way home my wife who also sat in on the seminar looked at me with a smile and said still your opinion HUN.
Now let me say this been beat WAY more times than I have won. and will still speak, eat and socialize with them and hold no hard feelings period because it was their opinion my dog was not good enough in their eyes
Aint gona say no more on this dun said way to much. PERIOD by by

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ptmike
The major shows have become a joke all it is is Friends picking friends and then you see them out eating dinner together anyone that is an active show person should not be allowed to be a judge 3 panel judging would be the way to go

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This is the Elephant in the room.
Should have been done 15 years ago.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by cripple creek
This is the Elephant in the room.
Should have been done 15 years ago.

---

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I am not going to say no names or the event but a pretty recent big event the judge picked kids for several of the category wins and it was very evident that their dogs were not as good as the other people I'm all for getting kids into the sport but don't rip people off with wins like that also the judge was the breeder of the dog of one of the other category winners that should not have won either

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A bench show is judged on the hounds confirmation and which which of course you already know and the one who meets their breed standards the best. Again a three panel judge system versus having one judge is simply this it rules out friends picking friends friends picking hounds off of their line etc. pretty straightforward you are showing in front of one judge who has three friends showing in the same class with you whom they are staying in the same room or rode with or you are showing under three separate judges once again not saying everyone that judges I show is crooked this was simply narrow it down to in sure that the best dog Wins the show We have all seen it nickels and dimes between hounds in that case for example what if one of those hounds was your best friend or a really good friend or someone who is showing a hound off of your dog ? Some people would be more invited to choose that pound if it comes down to three dogs with no difference in between their breed standards confirmation etc. versus having a three panel judging system the hounds would be looked at by three separate people and have a better chance of making sure the best dog wins . As Mr. H.L Mentioned this is not NASCAR you cannot lay a template over each hound. HOWEVER as judges we use a template system based upon the breed standards each hound must meet their breed standards THAT is our template

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Anyone else ?

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Registered: Feb 2018
Location: GA
Posts: 50

What’s your opinion on this ? You know all about the national shows

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 7068

Truth right there.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pat Bizich
OPINION???BULL****!!!
Dogs are to be judged as to how well they conform to their BREED STANDARD AND CORRECTNESS!!!!!

NOT MY OPINION..THAT IS A WORE OUT AGE OLD EXCUSE FOR POOR JUDGING...PERIOD!!

H.L you been around the show ring long enough to have seen it all. You, of most should know favoritism exists ,does, and will happen.

I posted on here a few years ago .Got reamed by Alan but the truth is the truth when it is staring you in the face.

I have seen dogs that were over height standard ,flat back Black and Tans, dogs that were so straight they should not even be winning at national levels continue to win show after show and were selected as National Grand At A.O. and the world show.
One year at A.O every winner chosen was absolutely straight in the hind legs. I got so disgusted I left .I about puked watching it was so disgusting.
Another year I showed a female that was absolutely one of the toughest show dogs I have owned. It came down to her and a "well known" handler. I got beat. I had no less than 3 people that were regulars in the show ring back then tell me what I did wrong.
It was the handler. I am like ,What? It was the handler.
Really ,what did I do wrong?
Answer. You don't understand ..If someone else was showing her she would have won.
It turned me off to waste my time or money to even pay to show at larger shows.

With the recent seminars I honestly can say I saw a "HUGE" improvement on recognition of the proper form of our coonhounds and standards.
Everyone can make mental errors or close call picks. That is not my complaint.

When a judge picks dogs because "THEY LIKE" ..compact dogs.. flat back dogs...dogs that are straight in the back...straight in the front....long rangy types.. houndy dogs...racy dogs...thick chest.. narrow chest.. heavy or thin types.... or they are winning every where else ,I have to pick this one... or ..last but not least because of who is behind the dog.
They are "NOT" judging to breed standards but are judging to what they "LIKE!!!!" AND BIAS!!

How many times have anyone of you your self said ...I won't show under so and so because they like a______________ fill in the blank type dog?
BECAUSE IT IS TRUE!!!
If it is not true why are all the bigger show chasers always wanting to know what judge will be judging that day?

Would a three judge panel keep it honest? Maybe.
If they did a 3..2..1 pick. Could not confer with each other. Hand the selections to an impartial person to announce the winner .Yes ,quite possibly.
Each one would be wondering if their pick is the same as the other two and would not want to look bias by picking the "OTHER" dog .LOL.

It's raining today.I'm bored!

---

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