Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

I purchased a female that is heavy SR about two years ago. The reason that I wanted her is that I felt she would niche very will with my potlickers. After quite a bit of contemplation, I have decided that crossing her with Clear River Diamond Jim should produce a male that will cross even better with my the three females that I raised and hunt on coons and lions.
Most everyone is familiar with Cl. Rv. Diamond Jim's pedigree so I will tell you how this gyp is bred and see what you guys think.
Her sire was Johnson Arena Blue who was by GRNITECH Diehard Jacked Up John Henry and Diehard Jacked Up Blue Gal. Henry was sired by SR Jeans Blue Tramp and dam was Wheats Playtime Blue Star. Gal was sired by Jake's Treeslammin' Blue Ace and dam was Diehard Blue Home Wrecker.
Her Mother was White Oak Mt. Bonnie who was out of Runnin Bullet II and Lathrop's Blue Ruby. As many of you know, Bullet II was by Runnin Bullet and SR Jean's Blue June. The Ruby female was out of Smiley's Blue Rambo II and Smiley's Blue Heather.
Since Cl. Rv. Diamond Jim has been dead for several years, we will be using frozen semen and the vet recommends doing a surgical insemination.
Two questions...What should I expect litter size compared to a natural breeding?
AND, what do you think about this cross?
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
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Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

Thanks, Partner! I hauled a really good female that I raised to Cl. Rv. Diamond Jim when Jim Smalling owned him. All of my dogs carry his blood and I thought when it was possible, to get another dose of it. I rarely breed a female as I am not into raising or selling pups but it is the only way I can get my hands on dogs bred the way I like them.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

Gary,

Back in 2006 I had a gyp surgically AI'd. Had 13 pups!

A good friend of mine had a gyp AI'd last year, but it was a Trans-cervical procedure. She had 11 pups.

The Progesterone Testing is key. It takes several tests for the Vets to see the level is rising, & when it peaks.

Good luck with your endeavor!

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: IL.
Posts: 632

I have had 3 experiences with it. ! surgically and 2 trans cervical. None of it good . 1 pregnancy 1 big dead pup that had to be taken by c - section. Lots of money not much return. Just my experience.

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Hudson NC
Posts: 189

I agree with Mr. Mauney, I spent a ton of money and wasted a ton of time in an effort to get pups. My experience with AI has been bad to say the least. I took my grnite gyp to block sporthounds and all I got was a nice bill. NO THANKS

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 2876

Not for me anymore, have done this a total of (6) times and got a total of (5) pups period. And I have used so called the best out there. Yes they do the P. test and that too is very costly. (1) time surgical is all and let me tell you the money wasted was a bunch.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: North Ms.
Posts: 305

Gary I surgically bred Sally to piazon and got a male and a female. Done all the tests but only 2 pups. Cost a lot of money. Vic had good luck but I sure didn't.

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North Ms.
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location:
Posts: 589

I almost went down this road the last time my female was in, I don't live near any stud dogs of choice and looked into AI surgically and transcervical to save a 5 hr plus drive.

I looked into it not long ago and found many folks approved of it or recomended it, but far more negitive reports than postive. I guess there is so much more to it than one would expect.

I guess what it really boils down to it how much money one is willing to gamble. Myself I have not bought more than 10 lottery tickets in my life, but I see some folks droping wads....sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, I guess that applys anytime we cut one loose.

I know at some point I will try an A.I procredure on a gyp. There is a guy in Tenn that is supose to be the best for the surgical procedure, and seemed reasonable priced. That was a 7 hr drive in its self. I also talked to block sporthounds, which was closer but still a 5 hr drive.

I decided to drive to a nice male up in his age and roll the dice on his fertility, then my gyp ended up getting bred by accident to a half brother and saved me the experience, guess it was ment to be, sure saved me some money, travel and doubt this round.

Best wishes and hope it all works out for you in the end, would be interested in how it does turn out.

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Kardinal Kennels


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Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2843

I was told by Dean at Never Gone that he had about a 90% success rate. He told me that he felt that if he wasn't also dealing with some sperm that was collected from aging stud dogs that he would have almost a 100% success ratio. If I remember right he told me it was in the $250 range to do the surgery, $25 to house the female per day if a person had to leave the female until she was ready plus the cost of the progesterone tests. So I was figuring about $500 to get a female bred on down the road.

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Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1920

I think there are a lot of factors that go into it. Timing with the progestrone test is one but also the thaw rate on the semen and how well it is preserved. I froze some semen on a hound that was tested and thawed at 70% when thawed right after freezing but used some last summer and it thawed at 30% from the same collection and had two dead pups. Again, lots of money and no results for the owner of the bitch not to mention the storage fees I had for 15 years. The 30% thaw rate I have since heard about with a number of breeds not just hounds and again not very good results. One other factor I believe is the knowledge of the vet who is doing it so finding that out ahead of time may also help you out.

My personal opinion on the cross is you should have some very well bred pups. I had a male out of DJ that started early and had a big mouth along with great looks.

Good luck,
Scott

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Valley, GA
Posts: 1194

I have done 4 surgical insemenations and got pups from all 4 females using frozen semen that was collected from aged males.

litter 1 we got 3 pups
litter 2 we got 7 pups
litter 3 we got 5 pups
and I have a female pregnant now
Semen quality and timing is most important to having sucess with surgical insemenation.

Glynn Holmes
478-662-4238

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

I am not sure what the total cost on this endeavor will be and I am not looking for a big litter. I just need one healthy male pup so that I can keep my breeding program going for a few more years. Anything more than that and it will be "icing on the cake". I am not selling dogs, just breed enough for me and a couple of buddies.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

I hauled Yuma to the vet clinic in Castroville, TX yesterday morning. Her progesterone level was higher than most females when they arrive at the clinic so they are going to check her again on Thursday. I am thinking that we will breed her on Thursday or Friday. I hope to get one of my cameramen there so that we can video for CARNIVORE. I have never seen this procedure performed and think it will make an interesting show.
As most of you know, I rarely breed a female as I try to produce dogs for me and a few hunting buddies. Matings are usually planned a couple of years in advance, as I am not a fan of raising pups. I am very particular in what I want to hunt as I do not want to waste my time hunting a dog that is limited on how good he can be because of his/her breeding.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

Brian Hawkins rode down with me Friday morning to video the procedure for CARNIVORE. After visiting with Dr. James Bell, I am convinced that he is THE AUTHORITY in canine fertilization. He surgically AI's 500 females annually with a success rate of almost 100%. His average litter size from these matings is 7.2 live pups.
The semen that we used last Friday was collected 8 years ago and I would estimate it to be 70% live, (I did not ask Dr. Bell what he thought that it was).
After visiting with Dr. Bell and observing the procedure, I am sure that Yuma will deliver a litter of pups, now getting them raised may be another matter.
This procedure is not inexpensive but experience has taught me that you generally get what you pay for...time will tell.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Prosperity,S.C.
Posts: 1130

12 pups Semen was only 40%

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

The cost of the surgery, progesterone test and keeping the gyp for three days was less than $900. Could some of you with experience in this field post the cost of the procedure at various clinics around the country? I would be most interested to find out if the cost is fairly uniform or not.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: IL.
Posts: 632

i would say your on the low side of average. For prices plus how far you have to travel would change the numbers.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

I only had to travel 150 miles from here to Castroville. How does the price of the procedure compare to those of you who have done this??? I will say that I did not know Dr. Bell before last week but after visiting with him and observing, must say that I was MUCH impressed. I would recommend him to anyone wanting to AI a female with frozen semen.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Oct 2015
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11

I have fairly substantial experience with frozen semen AI over a period of 25 years. I just had a female implanted the end of April which was for $593.50, that includes insemination and various other itemized expenses. Mainly 3 progesterone tests. There are many variables that go into canine reproduction, or for that matter any reproduction. One of the biggest variables is the experience and/or ability of the vet doing your procedure. My experience has all been with surgical implant so that's what I am refering to. There are apparently very few vets that have much hands on experience, I have learned this the hard way. I highly recommend Dr. Kent Law (Symbioun Inc.) from Abilene Ks, he is hands down the most experienced veterinarian in the world with canine reproduction. There are three full-time vets there and canine reproduction is the main thing they do. If you can't make the trip to Abilene I would at least have your local veterinarian get on the phone with Dr. Law, my experience with him is that he seems to be pretty willing to lend some advice to another veterinarian. Also I don't know Dr. Dean Bitzel personally but I know he is highly regarded in the industry.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

They conducted three progesterone tests on Yuma. While he has experienced vet techs assisting, Dr. Bell does all of the procedures. I may be wrong, but 500 surgical A.I.'s in a year seems like a lot to me.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Prosperity,S.C.
Posts: 1130

http://www.healthdiscoverycorp.com/...o-mckenzie.html
This is the best vet I've found and now a close friend..
He's knows what he's doing and good at it. Last litter Semen was 40 % got us 12 pups.weve used him several times.
We've sent coon hunters to him when having other issues as well. With great success.

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
"God bless the broken road"
Doug and Cleo Bowers




PKC SCH UKC DUAL GRAND TOUCAN SAM SEMEN



Also home to;ACHA LWSCH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ Sire is Kentucky River Rowdy (frozen Semen) BMOB 2013 Winter Classic
House's Lipper Hope x Kentucky River Rowdy
Broken Road's LITTLE TEXAS
LIPPERS STYLISH ROOSTER AT STUD
LIPPERS LITTLE TEXAS AT STUD.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location:
Posts: 675

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Roberson
I purchased a female that is heavy SR about two years ago. The reason that I wanted her is that I felt she would niche very will with my potlickers. After quite a bit of contemplation, I have decided that crossing her with Clear River Diamond Jim should produce a male that will cross even better with my the three females that I raised and hunt on coons and lions.
Most everyone is familiar with Cl. Rv. Diamond Jim's pedigree so I will tell you how this gyp is bred and see what you guys think.
Her sire was Johnson Arena Blue who was by GRNITECH Diehard Jacked Up John Henry and Diehard Jacked Up Blue Gal. Henry was sired by SR Jeans Blue Tramp and dam was Wheats Playtime Blue Star. Gal was sired by Jake's Treeslammin' Blue Ace and dam was Diehard Blue Home Wrecker.
Her Mother was White Oak Mt. Bonnie who was out of Runnin Bullet II and Lathrop's Blue Ruby. As many of you know, Bullet II was by Runnin Bullet and SR Jean's Blue June. The Ruby female was out of Smiley's Blue Rambo II and Smiley's Blue Heather.
Since Cl. Rv. Diamond Jim has been dead for several years, we will be using frozen semen and the vet recommends doing a surgical insemination.
Two questions...What should I expect litter size compared to a natural breeding?
AND, what do you think about this cross?
Adios,
Gary

---

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Menard,TX
Posts: 1158

What do you think of this cross, Roger? Do you remember Clint hauling a gyp to Runnin Bullet back many years ago??? Great to hear from you.
Adios,
Gary

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Registered: Jun 2017
Location:
Posts: 1

As a someone raised in french and english bulldogs i can offer a few good tips in making sure your gyp catches on an AI breeding.

first go to a vet familiar with AI if your going the vet route ( we always inseminated our own gyps ) the old cow vet in your town is a great place to start looking.

i never had good luck with the progesterone tests. only a vet that does them a lot will be able to correctly read and interpret the results.

we just Test the gyps readiness oldschool with a stud here and she just starts to stand or flag order your semen early that day for overnight shipment.

if you are depositing the semen yourself you need to understand that light heat cold movement, all these things break the tails off your sperms. get enough non swimmers and you have a low or no puppy count. warm the cooled semen up in your hands but don't shake it add the wake up juice. if you have a microscope to look at it that is awesome and will let you know you got good sperm. they come cheap in a kids science kit internet now im sure everybody has em. your looking for swimmers.... then just inseminate your gyp
with a flexable insemination tube and your good to go. I've never missed a gyp i bred using this system. ones ive taken to the vet i've never gotten pups.....
Surgically implanting the sperm seems like overkill to me. like a way for the vet to charge you more money i cant see any benefit to it unless you have very low sperm count semen and then i wouldn't be breeding that into my line...

definitely go with a stud owner familiar with shipping and more importantly HANDLING semen. talk to ppl who have had successful litters from this owner and stud, some dogs have fine semen but it doesn't ship well....

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