Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1077

What happened to dogs that know how to look for a coon? Where did dogs go that have coons on their mind when you unsnap them? When did it become acceptable to have to give dogs pills to keep them normal? When was the last time you saw a hound that looked like a hound? Is driving around to find the dogs normal now? Does everyone see as many coons sitting up behind their dogs as I do? Does every dog out there have a tick disease? Why aren't dogs as mentally stable as they used to be? Can today's dogs survive on feed with corn in it? Since when did dogs quit hunting for us, and start hunting for themselves? When was the last time your young dog jumped a deer and had a good race? Could he find his way back when he did? Does every dog today jump in its own poop and bark all day? Is every male dog mean? Does every female have heat cycle issues?

What the $&@? has happened in the last twenty years?!?!?!?!?!?!!

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Registered: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 3085

It started when people started breeding for papers instead of traits !!!!IMO,, those belly down hounds lookin run to catch accurate hounds are out there that don't have to be given a pill twice a day they just aren't easy to find!, don't get me wrong I beleive most can be worked enough to where they will tree a coon but far from being a COONDOGS!!!!!

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

This is jmo and it don't mean much when they went from 3 hrs to 2hrs hunts we thought the sky was falling the longer the hunt the more complete a dog you had to have to gain a good score and keep it ! Then the all grand pedigree they dang near inbred those dogs useing the same dog multiple times to get the all grand pedigree that's where your undersirable traits and your health issues came from ! Then comes your hunts where you can win weather you tree a coon or not and could get paid big money doing it not in all cases but if you see sombody at a hunt 4 or 5 nights a week they ain't pleasure hunting and they probly ain't got a job either. But as I seen all those changes and more I am kind of excited because I see the trend of people kind of bending it back the way it was they are not satisfied with the way it is and have found out that ( coon eyes matter ) you take an old fashioned honest strike stay put independent tree dog that takes its coons as it comes to them and ignores all the race horses they win between that and if they would go to the no leash lock were people's dogs would have to go back to competing against each other rather than the clock it would be a game changer in a good way it would be more enjoyable for all.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: gillett PA
Posts: 546

I think that the tracking systems we have today has a lot to do with some of it. 20 or 30 years ago some had the beep beeps tracking collars, you could tell the direction, but not the distance and you couldn't use them all thru a hunt, now you go on a hunt most everyone is looking at a screen and they know exactly where their dog is and if its over a hill or down in a hollow out of hearing. this really promotes the dogs not hunting with the hunters and those deep going type dogs. as for the Tick diseases, back 20/30 years ago we had a tick once in a while, but very few, now you go hunting you'll probably end up with some ticks on your clothing and your dog if you don't use some sort of protection. Ive never seen as many ticks here as I have the last few years.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1077

I have zero doubts that we tree more coons now than we used to. I'm just sick to death of it being such a hassle. Being three miles away in someone's backyard. Looking for a dog that's running roads then not being able to catch them when you catch up. Having to go to the vet three times a year for various thyroid/tick/food allergy/ etc issues. Not being able to turn dogs loose without enough electronics to launch a space shuttle. There comes a point where I stop drinking the Koolaid and get off the bus...

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

quote:

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Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
I think that the tracking systems we have today has a lot to do with some of it. 20 or 30 years ago some had the beep beeps tracking collars, you could tell the direction, but not the distance and you couldn't use them all thru a hunt, now you go on a hunt most everyone is looking at a screen and they know exactly where their dog is and if its over a hill or down in a hollow out of hearing. this really promotes the dogs not hunting with the hunters and those deep going type dogs. as for the Tick diseases, back 20/30 years ago we had a tick once in a while, but very few, now you go hunting you'll probably end up with some ticks on your clothing and your dog if you don't use some sort of protection. Ive never seen as many ticks here as I have the last few years.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

I'm seeing better dogs than ever. I own the two best I've turned loose in 20 years of hunting. I don't know why everyone thinks the sky is falling

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Corey you ask some good questions and if someone really examines the question and make a list of answers there is no one particular reason. First and foremost when a group of living creatures go in one direction or another you want to say it is GENETICS. GOOD BREEDING if you like the changes or BAD BREEDING if you don't.

Lets look at this from the point of view that has me scratching my head. Everything you described if it was in one particular breed say WALKERS and it was one particular BLOODLINE then you could start to narrow down the reason and either calm it down or intensify what you liked. Here is the part that has me scratching my head. It is not just Walkers or one line of Walkers. It is all breeds and many lines of them. Example and folks this is example only. Say the straight, independent babbling dog was just in the WIPEOUT breeding. You have a place to look to eliminate it. But it isn't. I have seen it in plenty of dogs that WIPEOUT, COMA is absent from their bloodlines and in different breeds also. Actually seen the negatives the Wipeout Hounds get hung with, worse in a couple dogs that had NO wipeout.
Folks this is not only in the WALKER breed so that says something more than GENETICS has come into play. Because in reality if you have strict standards the good dogs are pretty darn good.

I use to pull up and turn our dogs out one the side of a two or three acre pond. I just wished I had a dog that would circle the pond before coming back. I knew if he would I he would strike a coon. I don't know if we had a dog that would hunt all the way around that small pond.

I use to hunt a spot where farmers would dump cull potatoes along side a ditch and dirt road. Tree two or three coon in the potatoes most of the time. Tree one and then turn out and tree another one. Our dogs hardly left that small area and trust me it was small.

I have 6 month old pups I could not turn out in either of those spots today and expect them to stay in that small of area.

I can only speak for me and the areas I hunted but the Tracking Systems made a big difference in the dogs I kept around. In the 70's when I walk hunted and I would get a good hunting dog, unfortunately it would cull itself by getting deep, treeing a coon and never be seen again. The everglades was vast and between some of the paved roads it is 10-17 miles of hell. So in the early days the ones I would of like to of bred, culled themselves. Now with tracking systems those genes are abundant.

Everything transpires in stages. I think we passed stage one and went through stage 2 and if we are realistic with ourself will move into stage 3.

Stage 1 we had dogs that were hunted to supply meat and fur and those dogs that were sorry were not hunted. Also those dogs either had to have good homing skills or the harder going ones culled themselves like mine did,

Stage 2 with the tracking systems of the past 25 years or so.
Every dog we took hunting we brought home. The harder going better class of dogs stopped culling themselves and started to get bred. We started to see things in the pups that Grand Pa didn't see. Remember Grandpa wore out gloves sometimes patting sides of trees, while now you get bit if you get close to a tree and are not careful. The things we saw we thought were a big improvement and they were with one exception. As Trainers, Men and Custodians of the breeds we still had the responsibility to CULL bad habits. But wait those dogs were doing things never done before at an early age and we overlooked the bad. But wait, Theres More! Someone figure out there was a market for the Culls with the guys that were amazed at some of the stuff those young dogs were doing. They were blinded by some very good points the dogs had and never saw the bad or diminished them to the point they really weren't bad in their minds.

Now I think we are moving into stage 3. I think most of the people have experienced some of the bad and are starting to understand it. I am just not sure if todays generation of owners understand the responsibility of culling. Easier to sell, give away or dump your problems on others.

We have to open our eyes and call a fault a fault, a cull a cull and be honest with ourselves.

You know when there is a problem I always look for a common denominator. In this case. It is not just a particular breed. It is not just a particular part of the country. The only thing left is the Man hunting the dogs. Thats the common denominator to the problem.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 07-09-2016 at 05:03 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Cory,

The answers to most of your questions is no.

I have always hated dumb dogs.
I have always hated trash runners.
I have always hated dogs that couldn't be called or handle like a spoiled kid.
I have always hated poor kennel manners.
I have always hated edge and road runners.
I have always hated babblers.
I have always hated back trackers.
I have always hated mean dogs.

Years ago I was always nervous about my hounds getting killed on roads. I had several get killed that way.

Yes, I am set in my ways, and I don't plan on changing. I can say I enjoy the piece of mind the Garmin offers me. i don't end up on posted land as much as I used to, I can beat my dog before it crosses a road, and I absolutely love the tone function. I watch my Garmin if the dog is near a road, but otherwise I don't feel compelled to watch it like a tv screen.

Yes, there are some health issues in dogs today, but you know what those issues have been here for the last 30 years. The worst of it is many come from some of our top producers.

From my view, most things pertaining to dogs haven't changed, but the few new electronics have enhanced my hunting.

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Larry Atherton

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

Bruce,

Today, culling isn't politically correct, and actually in Michigan it is against the law. Today's hunters need to change how they cull. It is simple actually ... just have the dog fixed.

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Larry Atherton

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Larry, I know that the proper way today to cull is remove the animal form being able to reproduce by having it fixed. That will work if thats the method chosen.

Don't get me started on what Political Correctness has done for us.
1. Turned Loving, Respectful children into monsters.
2. Turned facts into lies.
I will stop for now.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 07-09-2016 at 06:16 PM

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 108

I don't blame the dogs, it the pretty on paper breeders that's caused the problem, and the guys that buy into it.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Northeast Arkansas
Posts: 451

Cory, if you quit drinking the koolaid and get off the bus and decide to sell the litter mate female of the one I bought from you, I want first dibs! LOL

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
You know when there is a problem I always look for a common denominator. In this case. It is not just a particular breed. It is not just a particular part of the country. The only thing left is the Man hunting the dogs. Thats the common denominator to the problem.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1077

quote:

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Originally posted by Ringo08
Cory, if you quit drinking the koolaid and get off the bus and decide to sell the litter mate female of the one I bought from you, I want first dibs! LOL

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Corey in about 6 months I will be coming to Arkansas to try and make some of the right kind like you if I do see one that is what I think it should be my banker ( my wife) won't turn loose of enough money to own it !! They ain't cheap because the guys that own them know what they got.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Only difference i see today compared to 20 yrs ago. Little more babbling and a lot more independence lots less building fire time. Do I like it? Yes!

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: IOWA
Posts: 958

In the 80's we had less coon & more consistent hounds. Now we have to many coon, not enough hunters, to many slick treeing idiots blow in a mile and pass up a dozen coon to do it, to much paper happy puppy mills all about titles, to much jealously, not enough culling, not enough tracking power to much tree power, to worried about performanced and super stakes and titles instead of coon hound.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 1176

Who's to say things weren't the same back then, you just wouldn't know it. Those guys had know ideal what a dog was doing in the woods every nite. Today we know when and where a dog took a dump in the woods. Back then you didn't have the roads and houses. When a dog was cut it had know worries. Back then when they got too deep to hear you went home. The next day someone brought the dog home to you, or in a few days the dog came home. Cause most guys hunted from there back yard and a dog was less likely to get lost running down a road for miles. Dogs still had health issues they just didn't make it that long. Heck they used Keroseane to treat just about anything. You might know a little something about a dog that lived on the other side of the county, but you sure didn't know anything about a dog on the other side of the state unless you read it in a magazine. Today we know about dogs 2000 miles away like there in our back yard!

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: jacksonville, nc
Posts: 2856

I hunted fox with my grand father in the early 60s. He and a friend would turn the dogs loose and then fuss about one that would come sneaking back to camp. they would listen to the dogs with a funnel in their ear. they never mentioned trashing. I never heard them wonder if the dogs were running deer. there were hardly any deer any where. I never saw a deer until we visited a state park and it was like seeing a unicorn. most of the dogs came back the next morning. we looked for the others. once in a great while we'd find one hanging in a fence. most of the time we never saw the dog again. ticks! the dogs were covered in ticks. my job was to "tick" the dogs which took me long time. when we came back from black berry picking, my mother would have to pull the ticks off us because we'd be covered in them. The dogs never got any kind of doctoring except kerosen with sulfur. WE forced chewing tobacco down their throth as a wormer. He did get some kind of blue ointment to treat the areas under their legs where they would run the hair and top layer of skin off. Remember, they did this for fun because there was no skin to sale and no meat to eat.

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