Registered: Aug 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 950

Is it just me or does it seem like the Redbones are getting going a little quicker with the program than they used to? I've been hunting Reds since the mid 90's and don't ever remember seeing as many young dogs 14-20 month range winning casts and getting titled.

Granted, the competition hunts are not as, "competitive" at the local level as they used to be but you still have to beat the other dogs you draw.

Seems like the Redbone breeders have gotten this trait going the right way.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

ARE THEY BETTER IF THEY START OR FINISH YOUNGER, JUST CURIOUS

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 950

quote:

---

Originally posted by oklared
ARE THEY BETTER IF THEY START OR FINISH YOUNGER, JUST CURIOUS

---

Last edited by Chris Snyder on 06-28-2016 at 04:50 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

I think because of better breeding, we are seeing more starting at a younger age than what we saw before the turn of the century. As far as are they better in the end, reminds me of a off colored 2 year old I purchased years ago. For his age and experience he was all right. At 4, he was exactly like he was as a 2 yr old. I ended up selling him to a guy that had known of the dog from his previous owner and he thought he was great. lol

__________________
OFFICIAL FIELD TESTER FOR LEMS LIGHTS

Good people do not need laws to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws (Plato)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Snyder
Anyone can enjoy hunting a 12yr old veteran dog. They are fun to hunt cause you know what you are going to get.

---

Where is the fun in that? Old dogs are boring to hunt. I have a 5 yr "Old" dog tied up way in the back of my yard that I don't hunt anymore. I know exactly what he is going to do when I turn him loose. Now if I just wanted to kill a bunch of coons, I would take him but where is the fun in that?
Chris, since you are a "breeder" now, you should know the answer to that question. Don't you think that your stud dog is going to produce early starting pups? Yes, a lot of the Redbones of today are starting much earlier. Yes, quite a few breeders are looking toward that. But quite a few are also still starting later.

Now then, whether starting early is a good thing or not depends on who you ask. There are many pros and cons and could be argued either way. And early starting depends on the trainer as much as the pup. Maybe Redbone trainers are just trying harder to get their pups started earlier now because they expect it more.

And there is a lot more pressure from the breeders to put those young pups in competition hunts now. In the past people intentionally kept their pups out of comp hunts until they were 2 or 3 yrs old even though they were running and treeing their own coon. Now if a pup will bark up a tree, they are entered in a hunt to show off what they can do.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 06-28-2016 at 02:16 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

I KNEW A SPOTED DOG GUY THAT STARTED PUPIES BARKIN UP A FENCE POST AT A CHICKEN, AND WHEN HE STARTED HUNTIN THEM HE NEVER KNEW WHAT THEY WERE GOIN TO DO BUT HE HAD ALOT OF FUN

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Where is the fun in that? Old dogs are boring to hunt. I have a 5 yr "Old" dog tied up way in the back of my yard that I don't hunt anymore. I know exactly what he is going to do when I turn him loose. Now if I just wanted to kill a bunch of coons, I would take him but where is the fun in that?
Chris, since you are a "breeder" now, you should know the answer to that question. Don't you think that your stud dog is going to produce early starting pups? Yes, a lot of the Redbones of today are starting much earlier. Yes, quite a few breeders are looking toward that. But quite a few are also still starting later.

Now then, whether starting early is a good thing or not depends on who you ask. There are many pros and cons and could be argued either way. And early starting depends on the trainer as much as the pup. Maybe Redbone trainers are just trying harder to get their pups started earlier now because they expect it more.

And there is a lot more pressure from the breeders to put those young pups in competition hunts now. In the past people intentionally kept their pups out of comp hunts until they were 2 or 3 yrs old even though they were running and treeing their own coon. Now if a pup will bark up a tree, they are entered in a hunt to show off what they can do.

---

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2015
Location: Southern Vermont
Posts: 311

I credit the early starting dogs to the breeders and the fact that more people are trying them at a young age. I shot my first bear when I was eight it was treed by a 9 month old Redbone all by her lonesome In 1995 she was an early starting dog

__________________
Hounds I own
PR LT Redcoat Wait Till Sundown(Dual Grand T-Top Dark Timber Moose X Longtrail Redcoat Reaper)

PR Long Trail Redcoat Lucky Walter (Dual GR T-Top Dark Timber Moose xSML Dark Timber Bobbie Ann) co owner Ron Wolters


PR Long Trail Redcoat Reaper(GRCHPR Hershs Huntin Red 90/4 Life Gun HTX X CH PR Stone&Redcoat DBL Moon Kate II) co owner Ron Wolters

Hounds Im hunting
PR Soggy Bottom Dark Timber Addy : owners Buck Ratliff/Mike Laster

NTCH GRCH Dark Timber Red Angus : owners Buck Ratliff and Myself

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 156

Here is what I think about that. I think redbones are starting earlier because they are easier to start because of excellant crosses made by hunters and breeders around the country. The easier they are to train the more they get hunted. Don't misunderstand it is still hard and it takes a lot of work but I think it is easier than back 40 years. As far as hunting older dogs I have learned by experience that you look, train and hunt your rear end off trying to find that hound you dream of and you finally get him. You breed him and keep him in a pen while you hunt the hide off his pup. You waste a lot of the old dogs life as he sets in a pen while you could be enjoying the best dog you ever had. I did some of this when I had old Zack and was training Little Zack. I said that would not happen again. Kenny Hastain explained it best to me when he was talking to me about Steve O. If Kenny went hunting Steve O was in the dog box everytime. That doesn't mean he was dropped in every ditch. He hunted young dogs by themselves in a lot of them but Steve O got turned loose at least once every nite because Kenny said he looked all his life for a dog like that and he was going to enjoy him as much as possible while he could. I think Kenny is a smart man.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1600

I had my first Reg Redbone in 1963 from Roy's kennel and he was doing it right at 12 months, got a female from Red in 1984 and she was doing right at 10 months. Bred Moose to Cameron's Penny in the 90's and the pup I kept, Jenni Jo, took a track from the old hounds in December and was 11 months old. The pup I got from Paul Swetman in the late 80's and the one from Scott Haynes both could do it under a year old. And the last two I got out of Justin DeHass's Rowdy and Screamer started early.

The most important factor is not so much the age they start but at what age did the "boot time" start getting them in the woods. All of the above "pups" where the only one I had at the time so we went for a lot of one on one walks at 6 months of age, fences and water was nothing new to them when they got taken in the dark. Work them on drags and roll cage a few times and when season came in the first few they got down to them where DEAD!!! I've seen to many that think they have to "give" their pups coon that have life in them. Secret is, your pup doesn't know he didn't kill it, but he does know that he just got the crap kicked out of him and why would "I" want to do that again?? Enough bad things happen out of our control, why have something bad happen that you have control over. (Keep your hounds tied at the tree, just in case your a bad shot)

PS I was hunting with Rob Farr and his very young pup in MO that treed his first time out while Old Zack was treed in deeper---I was impressed!!

__________________
OLD TIMER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

My answer is ,no
I think we all got short memories and the years go by too fast. I really haven't seen much change in any of the breeds in the last twenty years except maybe the names of the dogs. Just being honest , they seem pretty much the same as far as early starting and dogs that win at young ages. There has always been some that get it done at an early age. Least wise, for as long as I can remember. I do believe my best dog is yet to come.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2010
Location: MT HOME
Posts: 198

EARLY OR LATE I DONT REALLY CARE I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE A GOODEN

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 950

There are a lot of great points made here by the guys that have been around a bit. Good to see some intelligent discussion from some guys that have been there and done that.

It comes down to getting the pup/young dog hunted doesn't it? Boot time, wood time. Whatever you want to call it. Then the question becomes, "what is the motivation to get the hunter to invest the time?" To me that starts with a pup that gets you pumped up to take it.

For some the motivation is accolades and recognition. For others it is the pride in keeping a line going or a kennel full of good dogs. For many it's the love of the sport, for others it is just recognizing good talent when you see it and appreciating it for the short time that we have that hunting partner around. The years do go by too fast.

Whatever that motivation is, that pup/youngster has to trigger it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1701

Some start earlier than others. More early starters now? Probably. I believe we have more qty of good dogs now than before. More good crosses being made now days.
That all said. If you just have 1 pup to work, it probably starts and finishes earlier than if you have a few projects at the same time.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 436

CAREFUL ABOUT STARTING THEM TOO YOUNG , THIS GUY LEARNED THE LESSON THE HARD WAY. was hunting last night had a 7 month old pup we treed a coon in a sycamore tree when we got there the coon tried to climb higher, and fell out chewed my pup up pretty good. today the pups eyes are in bad shape cant see any thing but that red membrane in her eyes. swelled up bad below her eyes on jaws don,t know if the coon done it or weeds might have

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jm265
EARLY OR LATE I DONT REALLY CARE I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE A GOODEN

---

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Look at the winners at this years National Redbone Days. It looks like a bunch of young pups/dogs to me. Where were the old dogs? I guess that not only are they starting earlier but they are getting old and slow earlier also.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 934

In the 20 years I've been in it and with the dogs I've seen I would say no. My first pup was running and treeing at 6 months old. I bought a sister to her out of the next litter that was the same. All my dogs except one go back to that first pup and they all started about the same. The one that doesn't go back to that first pup was treeing her own coons right by the time she was 8 months old.

__________________
Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Snyder
... don't ever remember seeing as many young dogs 14-20 month range winning casts and getting titled....

---

Is there a difference between treeing at 6-10 months old and winning hunts at 14-20 mos old? And I wonder how many of the pups that make Nt Ch at 14-20 mos old go on to make Gr Nt Ch?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 07-04-2016 at 08:04 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

I wonder if we made a list of Redbones that made Gr Nt Ch and noted at what age they started treeing, what it would look like? That would be interesting to me.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged