Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Why isn't every non-hunting judge furnished a Garmin that he can put all 4 dog's collars into? He could/should use the Garmin to judge the dogs. It would stop a lot of the arguing about whether a handler struck the wrong dog or not. It would stop the arguing about whether a dog "moved" after it was treed. It would also stop the arguing about which dog was on which tree when split trees are involved. Garmins could stop handlers from "pitching" their dogs especially at the end of a hunt when they tree them in deep in the last few seconds and hope that they get treed. Any big hunt when a non-hunting judge was used, they should have one that was knowledgeable enough to use a Garmin correctly. They may have some limitations but Garmins don't lie or stretch the truth. A garmin has no favorites and doesn't care which dog wins.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 05-30-2016 at 06:40 PM

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Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Lawrence, michigan
Posts: 138

The garmin is far from aacurate if dog is treed or not... and if dogs are in same area how can you tell which one barking.... i love to compete against guys that rely on garmins....they usually minus out quick.....lol

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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: IOWA
Posts: 958

You want to play video games stay home and play Xbox with the kid's

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

A Garmin will not accurately tell you if a dog is treed but they are very accurate at telling you whether a dog is moving or not. I have also seen a lot of handlers that were not very accurate at telling when a dog was treed. Just because a dog is barking every breath does not mean that they are treed. And just because a dog is not moving does not mean that they are treed. I did not say that a non-hunting judge with a Garmin would solve all of the problems in a nite hunt. But it seems to me that it would sure help. I guess that a good judge using a Garmin will take a lot of emphasis away from "handling" and put it back on "dogwork".

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 05-30-2016 at 07:22 PM

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 108

I have often thought that a device that could do somewhat, what a garmin could do but more accurately would propel UKC into the next level of growth and sportsmanship and eliminate most of the unprofessionalism that exist in a lot of night hunts. There are some good honest judges, but in my experience they can be far and few between. Think of how much more UKC could make with entry fees with a tool like this! Anyone that has had a bad experience with a judge that dosnt deserve the title (judge), just might try the hunts again! I think it should be called the equalizer! LOL. But really it has my vote. I mean would people be afraid that it might be harder to (put) a night title on a dog? If so then I guess the dog wasn't really deserving of the title in the first place. JMO! Maybe even a light bar that indicates each dog that barks instantly. And as far as video games go, remember if you don't like it you can always stay home and pleasure hunt. (Nothing wrong with that!) Remember Richard great minds think alike. Great post!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1610

And here I thought that the best dog ALWAYS won!


I guess that's why I stay home and play with the Grandkids. I have never been on a cast as much fun as when the "kids" and I go hunting. Thanks for the info.

And Richard I'm with you on using anything that can keep the honest--HONEST. Heck, that's go with a drone and a camera and we could go with every tree PLUS OR MINUS.

That would put a new meaning to having a PLAY BY PLAY!!

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Just remember if it's on film you can't denie it's happening then.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

What do you do when it loses signal?

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 108

Good point Jim. I am not saying it has to be a garmin that is already made but maybe something like it that could maybe store up signal when it has it and use the stored sig. when it looses it. Yadkintar video dosnt get everything but I agree with you it should be used more often.

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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: IOWA
Posts: 958

What do you do with the dog wearing another collar other than Garmin. Or batteries die I mean these thing never happen neither.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3468

Can more than one hand held device track the same collar at the same time?

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 108

Good point also ratman. I would bring extra and make sure you have yours charged. This happened in a night hunt to a handler and he just changed them, barrowed some.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 108

My astro 320 does. And remember if they made the garmins then the sky is the limit. Maybe garmin just needs the demands for them. Garmins capabilities are unbelievable, and its awesome that UKC is working towards letting garmin make our hounds safer and maybe even the hunts less contraversal. That would be beneficial to all! JMO.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2159

Put remote cameras on the dogs. Lol

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Pleasant Plain OHIO
Posts: 1291

I agree ,, it would work ,, I have thought this from the beginning of Garmin use

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Pleasant Plain OHIO
Posts: 1291

Im not sure of the time frame , but 98 maybe 2000, when they first came around ,, I thought wow satellite tracking ,, this will keep them crocks honest ,, If the judge is tracking them ,, as we all know now the satellite only tells us our location and the hand held tells us where the dog is , so yes its not a perfect tool , But in any Major event if the back up judge had a unit with all 4 dogs , it sure would take out a lot of guess work on strikes and them Hell maries guys like to throw at the end of a hunt ,, From the first week Garmin's came out I have had one ,, and you can tell what a dog is doing if you know how to use it ,, JMO

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Registered: Feb 2016
Location: Millington, Michigan
Posts: 110

What Club or KC would supply that many Garmins to every cast? Really?

Last edited by Todd_Miller on 05-31-2016 at 02:32 PM

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd_Miller
What Club or KC would supply that many Garmins to every cast? Really?

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

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Originally posted by Darrell Eads
Im not sure of the time frame , but 98 maybe 2000, when they first came around ,, I thought wow satellite tracking ,, this will keep them crocks honest ,, If the judge is tracking them ,, as we all know now the satellite only tells us our location and the hand held tells us where the dog is , so yes its not a perfect tool , But in any Major event if the back up judge had a unit with all 4 dogs , it sure would take out a lot of guess work on strikes and them Hell maries guys like to throw at the end of a hunt ,, From the first week Garmin's came out I have had one ,, and you can tell what a dog is doing if you know how to use it ,, JMO

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

As I said, it won't solve all problems but it sure would be a help. And we are only talking about Major Hunts with non-hunting judges. If the judge doesn't have his own Garmin, then he shoudn't be judging a major hunt. And if a handler doesn't have a Garmin collar by now, then he should not be hunting in a Major Hunt. If those are your only drawbacks, then I guess that we should try it. Maybe they could be used on the Top16 at Autumn Oaks? Or maybe at Super Slam Hunts?

Maybe UKC, using the MOH, could conduct a Poll at the next several Super Slam Hunts asking if participants think that non-hunting judges should use a Garmin to score the dogs.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

This is great for discussion but first you have to throw out some basic practicalities.
All you have ever needed to hunt in UKC has been a coondog and a light. Any light will do. Now every entrant will require a Garmin collar. $250 . And not just any collar, it has to be a T5. Or will every club be required to shell out $1500 for their own equipment? Oh, and about those non-hunting judges, they better come in the package with the collars or you are right back where you are now, lotsa hunters, no non-hunting judges. And if you CAN get those non-hunting judges, why do you need the Garmin to judge? Are we saying coonhunters no longer have the ability to tell when a treed dog is moving or what dog barked?
This is just more dumbing down. But after 3 pages of this, you gotta give it credit for stimulating conversation.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

"Practicalibities".....

The days of a good dog and any light are long gone.

If you don't think that every comp hunter doesn't have a Garmin, then you haven't entered a comp hunt in a long time.

Any good handler knows when their dog barks and when he moves after he is treed but will they admit it? That is the reason for using a Garmin to judge. If we lived in a perfect world then we would not need a judge at all.

If every club doesn't have a MOH and at least 3 members with an extra Garmin collar someone could borrow, then they need to close their doors. I went to a hunt this past weekend and forgot and left my Garmin collar at home. Four different hunters offered to let me borrow one. And there were only 7 dogs entered counting mine.

I think that they originally made Garmins only so that you could find your dog and to know where he was at all times. But the Garmin and handlers have progreesed to the point where you can now use them to tell what your dog is actually doing.
If someone develops a superior tool, why don't we use it?

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Oh my goodness, here is a thought. Don't make Garmin use mandatory. If a handler/participant does not have a Garmin collar that is all right. He can turn his dog loose without one if he wants to. The handlers would only have to allow the non-hunting judge to enter their collar in his handheld if they have one. I wonder how many handlers would show up without a Garmin collar?
Now what are the excuses? And the handlers don't have to be knowledgeable enough to know how to use the Garmin to "tell" what their dog is doing. They don't have to worry about that. Only the non-hunting judge has to know how to "use" one and know what the Garmin's limitations are. If the non-hunting judge does not have enough "experience" with a Garmin then he should not be judging anyway.

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Registered: Feb 2016
Location: Millington, Michigan
Posts: 110

if you allow one not to participate then you have to allow the entire cast not to. I am not having 20 or 30 handhelds out there with my collar logged into it.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd_Miller
if you allow one not to participate then you have to allow the entire cast not to. I am not having 20 or 30 handhelds out there with my collar logged into it.

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.......Oh my goodness.....
I wonder why someone would choose not to participate? I guess that they would not want the non-hunting judge to know what their dog was doing.
And as I have said several times here, we are talking about hunts with a non-hunting judge. Maybe each handler could delete his collar at the end of the hunt just as it was added at the beginning of the hunt. I don't understand why people are coming up with these reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual use of the Garmin to judge the dogs?

And Mr Gilchrist, the future is the use of thermal imaging devices to score trees. But they will have to get better, cheaper and easier to use first.

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