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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Right To Prvavcy

Is this a Conservative or Liberal issue? I can't get this figured out. I would think that the Conservatives would be championing the Right To Privavcy, but I heard Trump on the TV saying that he would compel Apple to unlock that phone. And the liberals seem to be wanting the government to not compel Apple to unlock it. I don't understand. Do all of the consevatives think that the courts should compel Apple to unlock the phone?

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02-28-2016 04:38 PM

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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

I'm on apples side on this one

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02-28-2016 10:16 PM

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GA DAWG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Who's phone was it and what did they do?

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02-28-2016 11:01 PM

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Well Started
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
I'm on apples side on this one

I am also if they can't create a way to get into the phone without also creating a security breach to all phones. We can't by-pass privacy rights of average citizens in the name of security.

If they have a way to only access that phone without leaving a digital trail that could compromise all phones, they should do it. A dead terrorist doesn't have rights.

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02-28-2016 11:06 PM

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Well Started
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Who's phone was it and what did they do?

Dead terrorist. San Bernadino shooter. There's encrypted information on there and the FBI can't access it. If they keep trying to figure out the password, the program apple has installed on the phone will shut the phone down.

The government is saying apple MUST write a code that lets them by-pass this to get into the phone. Apple is refusing saying it would compromise all phones. I'm with apple as long as its actually the way their saying it would work.

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02-28-2016 11:13 PM

Well Started
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

Re: JMO

quote:
Originally posted by 4play

No 'techies','geeks',or hackers can take it apart and access what they need?

Yes they can. The problems is according to some of the Apple supporters, is that it can't be done without leaving a digital trail that could be reverse engineered if you will, creating a back door opening to all apple phones.

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02-29-2016 02:12 PM

croatankid
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2007
Location: jacksonville, nc
Posts: 2856

I agree that apple should help them but given the dishonesty of our criminal justice system I hope they don't help them. there was a time, I think, when we count on the government to keep their word and not go running with everything they could find. Not now. You give them and inch and they will suck a foot. I do not trust the government to do the right thing at all.

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03-03-2016 04:42 AM

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WVBLUEBOY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Coal Country, WV.
Posts: 165

The FBI also has a drug dealer case in NY. that they want Apple to open a phone for. So far Apple has refused. I think the Federal Government just wants a way to get into the Apple phones unrestricted and anytime they want. I'm with croatankid, I don't trust the Government.

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03-03-2016 01:51 PM

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

I saw on TV (they had a picture of a big pile of them) that "the goverment" has almost 1,000 phones that they have confiscated. They said that if Apple has to open the one in question that this is just the tip of the iceberg. "Apple" also says that if they have to open this one for our government, that they will have to open any phone that the Chinese, North Korean, Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian etc. governments want opened since Apple is an International company.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 03-03-2016 at 04:26 PM

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03-03-2016 04:21 PM

Jason Baldwin
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

Why should terrorists get privacy rights ?

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03-04-2016 05:41 PM

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4play
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2015
Location: Mi.
Posts: 1952

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Why should terrorists get privacy rights ?

X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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03-04-2016 05:56 PM

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Well Started
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Why should terrorists get privacy rights ?

They shouldn't. Especially dead ones, they have no rights. The issue is Apple is saying they can't crack that phone without compromising the privacy of all Apple phones.

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03-04-2016 06:02 PM

Well Started
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

quote:
Originally posted by 4play
Don't know what phone they used........But there isn't any 'chip,'card' or internal memory in THAT phone that stores the info{like your home or office computer does} there looking for?

Can't believe there isn't a hacker,geek,techie or even a employee/ex-employee from Apple they can hire to break into THAT phone?

I wont pretend to say I understand how it all works. But Apple is saying if they have to "create" a program or code to get past the firewall, that it will leave a digital trail out there for future hackers to use.

So far the latest court rulings are agreeing with them and saying the government cannot compel them to do so. It will probably end up at the Supreme Court eventually.

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03-04-2016 07:45 PM

WVBLUEBOY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Coal Country, WV.
Posts: 165

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Why should terrorists get privacy rights ?

From my understanding if the phone is attempted to be opened/hacked a certain amount of times, it locks permanently and scrambles all the info on it that cant ever be recovered. The problem isn't a terrorists rights, it's that if Apple makes a back door for one phone, Big Brother can and most likely will use that back door on your Apple phone or anyone else's that they want whenever they want. Now I know the 4th Amendment and what all it's supposed to stop but when has the Government ever followed the letter of the law?

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03-04-2016 11:12 PM

Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

When I first saw this I was all for the FBI opening a dead terrorist's phone. But after learning/hearing more info, I have "changed my mind" and don't think that Apple should be compelled to open the phone. I guess that I am "flexible" when it come to the "right to privacy".

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03-05-2016 03:12 PM

tony.beals
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Perrinton, Michigan
Posts: 632

Government

I worked for the government and do not particularly trust them either.
However my understanding is that they want Apple to open it and get the information and give them just the information.

Number 1 Apple made the program and they are made by tech savvy people, in this day and age if man makes it there is someone just as smart to overide it. Apple probably already has it.

I do not want our privacy invaded, but government/hackers have already done that anyway.

I'm torn between these times with terrorist/organized crime (drugs) our law enforcement have there hands tied. We live in a tech savvy complicated world and good people suffer because of the bad and they seem to have more rights then the good.

Just my opionon

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03-05-2016 03:43 PM

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GA DAWG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Im really un decided on this. While part of me says open it so they can get the terrorist buddies and hang them. Other part says way to go Apple for not giving big brother his way.

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03-05-2016 11:14 PM

ScottCK 6
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Posts: 419

Does any body really believe that Apple doesn't already know how to do this?

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Scott Morris
513-435-0977

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03-05-2016 11:19 PM

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ScottCK 6
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location:
Posts: 419

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
When I first saw this I was all for the FBI opening a dead terrorist's phone. But after learning/hearing more info, I have "changed my mind" and don't think that Apple should be compelled to open the phone. I guess that I am "flexible" when it come to the "right to privacy".

They are not asking Apple to break into the phone, they are asking Apple to disable the erase all info on the phone feature, so they can have as many attempts as needed to guess the password. After a set number of wrong password entry's the phone will automatically erase all info on the phone.

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Scott Morris
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03-05-2016 11:25 PM

ScottCK 6
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One other thing it is not his phone, it is his work issued phone.

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Scott Morris
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03-05-2016 11:27 PM

GA DAWG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Ok. Ive thought about it and here's what I think. Apple should give a altimatem. If Obama will will acknowledge thus was a muslim terrorists attack and the one in tn at the recruiters office. They will break the code. If not. Stick it.

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03-06-2016 12:39 AM

ringtail
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2760

Why don't Apple go into the phone get whatever information the terrorists was hiding and turn that over to the court? That would not jeopardize everyone's right to privacy. Terrorists don't have a right to privacy. But do not show them a way to crack it.

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03-06-2016 05:27 AM

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WVBLUEBOY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Coal Country, WV.
Posts: 165

quote:
Originally posted by ringtail
Why don't Apple go into the phone get whatever information the terrorists was hiding and turn that over to the court? That would not jeopardize everyone's right to privacy. Terrorists don't have a right to privacy. But do not show them a way to crack it.

It's called legal chain of evidence. Law Enforcement would have to be present to keep that chain of legal evidence. That way anything used from the Apple info wouldn't get tossed out of court for being made up or taken from someone elses phone for example. The police would then have to take possession of and keep that opened phone that now has a back door made in it into their evidence locker. Do you think the government would not use that phone to learn how to open the next Apple phones they want open? Once the feds get the software or any hint of the software to open a Apple phone it's over, they wont care what Apple says, agrees to, or doesn't agree to.

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03-06-2016 07:56 AM

croatankid
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2007
Location: jacksonville, nc
Posts: 2856

There was a time when this would not have been an issue. No one would have doubted the governments integrity. It was probably before most of your time. But now, I wouldn't want the government to have it because the government would and will use the information to enhance the power of the government.

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03-06-2016 05:10 PM

Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

Do you really think that there has ever been a time when a large portion of the population didn't "doubt the governments integrity"? It must have been before the Vietnam War or maybe before the Civil War.

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03-06-2016 05:42 PM

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