Registered: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 421

Lots of people go after a proven cross, I've been told by air of big time breeders that the first time cross is always the best cross. The 2nd 3rd 4th cross can make nice dogs but it just won't be like that first time cross. Have any of you experienced this or is it just a theory or what? Just been thinking on this and was going to ask yalls opinion on it.

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Registered: Jun 2015
Location: Clifton Forge,VA
Posts: 334

quote:

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Originally posted by LittleCreek
Me and only me talking, I wouldn't have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th cross. Not saying they don't work because I'm sure some have. But from my experience first is always better.

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Christopher Huffman

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location: sand hills
Posts: 356

If all the genes line up you have got it made and they will be no difference from the first breeding to the last breeding but how many times does it take before you know its a proven cross and id never breed a dog under 2 years old and by the time you could call it a proven cross the gyp is going to be 5 or 6 so she or the sire would be going on the down side and later pups may not be as good as the first ones, i myself would rather have a pup from a good young gyp that has never been bred before to a top producing male any day of the week but that may just be me.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13413

I'm no big named breeder... BUT I've had great results from repeat crosses.

I crossed Lobo and Sassy several times with great results from each cross as well as Lobo and Shadow.

My Gr.Ch. Swampmusic Boone was off of a repeat cross that was made about 5 times. His brother Nt.Ch.Ch. Oneils Lobo Benson was off of the last cross of Lobo and Sassy.

I've bred Ch. Swampmusic Pride to Lester's Country Style Ruby several times with GREAT results from each breeding. I bet the guys that got pups off the last cross are just as happy with the pups the guys got off the first cross.


It's time to stop believing OLD WISE TAILS and back it up with some proof...

There are three pups in Ohio off of Pride and Ruby from three different litters I'm pretty sure a hunt could be set up with all three of them.

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Registered: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 3085

The genetics are the same whether it's the first are the fourth !!jmo the people,that get the pups make more of a difference then anything !!!!

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by POTOMAC
The genetics are the same whether it's the first are the fourth !!jmo the people,that get the pups make more of a difference then anything !!!!

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5924

Myself if a first cross is a good one dang sure I am going to to it again if possible . Never have had it not work the second time around when tried . Genetic match ups are genetic match ups . No 2 pups are the same but when you have a litter that across the board was a good one chances are the next one will be too .
And you all are right about where they go keeping pups in coonhunters hands will help rather than having them sitting in someone's pen .

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: London, KY
Posts: 2123

I'm huntin dogs out of the forth cross now same every time I got one out of the first cross third cross and fourth cross all are the same start early go hunting big mouth coon treers I will repeat it as long as they both live and if you think any different come go hunting I will show you.

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

I am no expert, my hounds are the extra trashy depression era sportsman type, i crossed curly and mabel out of 11 pups in the litter 7 are doing great I have 5, my buddys have 2. Sire was almost a 4yo at time of cross dam had just turned 3yo young dogs are now 18mo and i am having a hard time deciding which ones should i sell and which ones should i keep. I do not know if this is considered a proven cross by the experts or not.

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location:
Posts: 195

how can you say a cross is proven unless the results are proven by more than 1 litter. Anything less is just a lucky cross in my eyes. A proven cross would have to produce dogs with the same traits on more than one occasion and have consistency through out a majority of their offspring. Not only direct sons / daughters. But to carry traits for generations! jmo

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Afton, Virginia
Posts: 61

quote:

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Originally posted by POTOMAC
The genetics are the same whether it's the first are the fourth !!jmo the people,that get the pups make more of a difference then anything !!!!

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2161

Here's my take on that.

(1) The great majority of first time crosses fail to produce outstanding results.

(2) Occasionally you'll hit that first time cross that produces an outstanding litter.

(3) When people make a second cross and it doesn't work as good as the first cross, which was outstanding, people will start saying the second cross didn't work as well. The question then is: "As well as what?; (a) the first litter of the same cross that was outstanding, or (b) the great majority of first time crosses that fail.

(4) If you compare the results of all "first-time" crosses that have never worked, and all "second-time" crosses that worked well the first time, your results would be better on the crosses that have worked before. That doesn't mean always, but it sure improves your odds.

(5) If you got a poor litter on a first cross, and repeated it a second time, the second litter may very well be better (can't be worse). But those aren't the crosses we repeat. At least I hope that's the case.

(6) When someone tells you that second crosses don't work as well, you're question should be: As well as what?

(7) I've seen great crosses that didn't work as well the second time. But, I've seen many more crosses that never worked at all!!!

(8) Baseball Perspective. Hank Aaron was an all-time great. His little brother Tommy wasn't near as good as Hank, but played several years in the Majors. Would you rather have Tommy, or some random first-child, on your baseball team???

(9) So, if you get superstars from the first cross, and stars from the second cross, the second cross is not as great as the first, but shines compared to just about everything else.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3451

After reading all of this I would sure be depressed if I was the youngest child in a family of ten.

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Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 614

"shadinc" Even though you think the 9 crosses ahead of you were progressively better than you, mabybe they were outstanding and you are still a better one than most of the others in Louisiana. I know a lot of coonhunters over there and even without knowing you, I would say you certainly have a good chance to be special.

Ha Ha

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location: sand hills
Posts: 356

I read it and i still dont no where it was going but i would really hate to be a litter of 12 and be number 12 unless the first 6 crosses flopped then number 12 could be number 1.
now that is something to think about aint it.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3451

quote:

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Originally posted by David Morgan
"shadinc" Even though you think the 9 crosses ahead of you were progressively better than you, mabybe they were outstanding and you are still a better one than most of the others in Louisiana. I know a lot of coonhunters over there and even without knowing you, I would say you certainly have a good chance to be special.

Ha Ha

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: ky
Posts: 2264

I came from a first time cross and im a lil better than the second cross!!! Lol

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jason

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

most, if not all "freaks" come from first time crosses and the same cross is made over and over trying to get another.
Not gonna happen from what ive seen.
The "freak" probably issnt gonna reproduce very well but a littermate will.
The more I watch and study the subject the less i know about it.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Conway, Ark.
Posts: 161

Doug Compton bred Backwater Pearl to Fletchers Stylish Jake two times. Both litters were outstanding. Doug won breeder of the year both times

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2161

I'm a first born, so I'm obviously the best!!!

But, my little brothers insist that they are "new and improved ".

So what if my youngest brother won two state championships and wrestled in the classic! I didn't! But, I'm still the best. Not going to let facts dissuade me!!! I was first, so I'm the best!!! LOL

My little brothers don't get on this site, so I'm good!!!

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2161

I'm a first born, so I'm obviously the best!!!

But, my little brothers insist that they are "new and improved ".

So what if my youngest brother won two state championships and wrestled in the classic! I didn't! But, I'm still the best. Not going to let facts dissuade me!!! I was first, so I'm the best!!! LOL

My little brothers don't get on this site, so I'm good!!!

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