Registered: Jan 2007
Location: VanEtten, New York
Posts: 114

With the use of telemetry in the hunts, I have been seeing this a lot more lately. A handler that strikes and/or trees their dog that nobody hears. How should this be handled?

I have seen it done different ways by different judges.

1. Judge has authority and doesn't accept the call.

2. Awarding the points and then minusing the points.

3. Awarding the points and placing the 8 minute or 2 minute rule on them.

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You can't strike or tree a dog that can't be heard.

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Registered: Dec 2005
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I had this happen 2 hunts ago. I was judging, the man struck his dog, I hadn't heard a sound from any dog. I ask the rest of the cast if they heard the dog. Replies was NO. I did not put his dog on the paper. Right or wrong that's how I handled it.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: VanEtten, New York
Posts: 114

I should have been more specific. I have seen handlers say that they hear their dogs and want to call them. With a hunting judge, do they accept the call or no? If he/she does, should they place the time on them? Do they only accept the call when the judge hears the dog? After the call, does the cast walk towards the dog in the distance to better hear them? What if another dog opens that is louder? Do you accept that dogs call but not the other?

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location:
Posts: 330

I was in a $KC hunt. A guy struck his dog off the garmin and nobody could hear it, no big deal. While scoring a tree, same handler treed said dog. After we scored the tree the judge said lets go to your dog and started walking. We walked for a couple minutes and stopped to listen. The two minutes got put on the dog and handler pulls out his garmin and said we walked the wrong way! Judge asked handler how could the entire cast walk the wrong way going to a treed dog? I smiled all the way home.

Last edited by Rough Northern on 05-21-2015 at 04:41 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

Judge is not supposed to except a call he cant hear. Let the handler push the issue and it can go bad for the ol handler.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

quote:

---

Originally posted by Muckey
With the use of telemetry in the hunts, I have been seeing this a lot more lately. A handler that strikes and/or trees their dog that nobody hears. How should this be handled?

I have seen it done different ways by different judges.

1. Judge has authority and doesn't accept the call.

2. Awarding the points and then minusing the points.

3. Awarding the points and placing the 8 minute or 2 minute rule on them.

---

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Al
Posts: 3069

Turn it around , what if there is a hound barking no one will call ?

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Mahaffey, PA
Posts: 2362

Strike you would give next available and minus it, If dog is treeing and they wont call it you apply the stationary on that dog

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: gillett PA
Posts: 545

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Don't accept the call.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: VanEtten, New York
Posts: 114

quote:

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Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
AND THIS IS HOW IT WAS HANDLED , JUDGE WOULD NOT ACCEPT HIS CALL AS NO DOG WAS HEARD BY ANYONE ELSE

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Last edited by Muckey on 05-21-2015 at 06:49 PM

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: WV
Posts: 394

I know its not worth much but in my opinion, if nobody in the cast can hear the dog and you know a guy is trying to strike or tree his dog off a Garmin then he should be minused those position points for cheating. Or scratched would be good too. All tracking/training devices should be left in the truck just like it used to be. Guys made it for years without them. Using GPS in hunts is just another way for guys to cheat. Way too much rule bending goes on in these hunts.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

How about the guy that continually strikes somebody else's dog. I see that being a bigger problem than the Garmin's. I don't really see to many guys making calls off them. I think if your going to allow Garmins at all you might as well loosen up on using them to the point that when somebody say's "hey that's my dog you just struck" the judge can say "OK boys show me where your dog is". That could cut out allot of cheating right there because It can take a judge 2 or 3 drops sometimes to just start getting a handle on who's dog is who's IMO

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by RLenhart
How about the guy that continually strikes somebody else's dog. I see that being a bigger problem than the Garmin's.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Not sure why this would be a problem since we have a very clear rule that handles those who call someone else's dog. Rule 4(n), minus the appropriate points the first time and rule 6(k) scratch for the second offense. That takes care of that.

Now if you say the judge can't or won't make that call, well, that is just weak judging or incompetent judging and there is nothing any rule book or rule change can do to fix that.

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

How long ago was it that all judges where non-hunting judges?

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location: BOONEVILLE KY.
Posts: 931

Back to the orginal question i hunted in one hunt last year just trying to get a pup in on a coon race or two.

Three dog cast same thing happens guy says strike my dog but i could not hear any dog barking anywhere and i asked the judge can you here a dog barking anywhere and he says no i said well majority rules no strike but he says lets walk a little in that direction and when we had walked 500 yards or so the judge looked at his garmin and said strike my dog no dog could be heard anywhere now both hunters are claiming their dogs struck but i here nothing but two against one strike points are put on score card for both dogs.
we walk another quarter mile and i or two spectators said we had never heard the first bark.
My daughters dog that i was handling struck left handed and i said to each of the two other hunters do you here that dog barking and both said yes then i said strike Sam i thought that was the way you were suppose to do it well to make a long story short i scratched Sam and with drew him and they kept going with their hand held garmins and over two hours later returned said dogs had two up one tree.
This was the first hunt i had been in since the use of garmins came into effect so i was not up on the rules like i should have been and i was not expecting to win anything with a pup but lesson learned anyway.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Here latley the cast I been on they rattle right off the leash and never shut up and never get over 10 yards apart I one dog does get away from the pack that's the only time they shut up when they are hitch hiking to them and that sorry stuff I am hunting Is right there with them you could pitch a dog in there anytime and nobody would know the difference lol!!

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: LaPorte IN
Posts: 1620

when they started letting you use the Garmin's in the hunts they said there was no way a person could cheat using one. I guess they was wrong I said it then if there is a way they will do it.

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Registered: Oct 2010
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There's a simple solution to all this. Still require a dog to be struck but do not value a dog just because it's opening it's mouth faster.

Every dog that gets struck award them the same strike points. All these problems would be solved.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Here latley the cast I been on they rattle right off the leash and never shut up and never get over 10 yards apart I one dog does get away from the pack that's the only time they shut up when they are hitch hiking to them and that sorry stuff I am hunting Is right there with them you could pitch a dog in there anytime and nobody would know the difference lol!!

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We must be hunting with same dogs

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

quote:

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Originally posted by buck brush
when they started letting you use the Garmin's in the hunts they said there was no way a person could cheat using one. I guess they was wrong I said it then if there is a way they will do it.

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Rover,Arkansas
Posts: 1133

quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
There's a simple solution to all this. Still require a dog to be struck but do not value a dog just because it's opening it's mouth faster.

Every dog that gets struck award them the same strike points. All these problems would be solved.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: WV
Posts: 394

Guys use them to tree their dogs too. I know of one incident my buddy told me where all dogs were struck but went out of hearing. Guy looked at his tracker and said he heard his dog treeing. Then treed his dog. Judge said "are you sure you hear your dog treed". He said yes. On the way to the tree he told another cast member (my buddy) that he didn't necessarily know the dog was treed except for on the Garmin but knew she would be by the time they got there. This guy has had some well known stud dogs and has had a couple legendary females as well. Guess he is well known for this very trick too.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

You can always tell when a $ kc hunter comes to a ukc hunt when they hide behind a tree to look at they're garmin lol !

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