Registered: Sep 2008
Location: jasper,al
Posts: 751

let me start by saying my dog does not babble. ok here we go. cut loose other dogs take off barking down the creek. they finally shut up. then my dog strikes and I strike him for a hundred. old guy pops off he has took take the track out of there(where he struck at). I agree. by this time other dogs are all struck in after the min. next time I hear my dog bark he may have went 50 yrds and I tell the cast there he is. well old guy pops off again if I was judging he would have been minus. I bite my lip and go on. ok so is 50 yrds to far for a dog to go before he opens again on the ground? wasn't trying to get undeserved points I jus know my dog.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

Situations like you describe are when a good judge will take controll of the cast and remind the old guy that he is not judgeing this cast and unless he wants to place a ? on the card that his commentary is not helpful.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

Only states you DONT have to strike your dog in the first min each time they are cut loose. Your "old guy" is using the wrong KC by stating your dog "has to take a track out of there"!!!

In UKC the only thing a dog has to do once struck is bark once every 8 minutes. As long as he does that no one can minus you BY the rules!!!

A dog can be minused for babbling 20 minutes after they are cut as well as 20 seconds after they are cut.

There is no rule in UKC that says a dog has to cary a track once struck.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: jasper,al
Posts: 751

that's the way I understand it Frank on both KC. it would be hard to do but, on another turn out the min was up and same old dudes dog didn't want to cross the creek and was barking at other dogs and he struck her. so we could have started the 8 on his dog then for babbling. it was obvious why she was barking.

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 629

You should have told the old dude to call his dog and you would call yours. I've seen this where something tries to tell the judge what he should do about someone else's dog besides his.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

This is the thing, you are right about it not being a rule to take a track out in UKC, BUT it does say it is at the judges discretion to minus a dog he thinks is babbling. So he could, if he was the judge minus a dog for what he thinks is not taking a track out if that is the criteria he uses.

That being said I judge in the other KC pretty often and have minused several dogs for this but it needs to be a couple of hundred yards not 50. Your judge should have told him to question it or drop it.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Sullivan IL.
Posts: 3060

Frank is right but you should have minused him for barking on the creek! I hope when the auto. strike dogs from that other kc come over to hunt the slam events that some one steps up and minuses them every time. It doesnt matter if they bark every step they need minused.

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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 572

You wouldn't have to start any time on a dog for babbling. If she was barking where no track was evident the judge could have got her for babbling anytime after 1 minute after cutting loose. Some folks will play ya if they don't think you know the rules or they know the judge will put up with it.

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark V.
Frank is right but you should have minused him for barking on the creek! I hope when the auto. strike dogs from that other kc come over to hunt the slam events that some one steps up and minuses them every time. It doesnt matter if they bark every step they need minused.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

quote:

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Originally posted by rthompson
ive hunted with way more babblers in ukc myself.

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 439

Don`t know why the other KC gets so much flak, I hunt both and have seen more BS over a yellow slip of paper than $.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2010

IF HIS DOG WAS STANDING AT A CREEK BARKING, 1 HE HAS TO STRIKE HIS DOG OR BE MINUSED. THEN PUT THE STATIONARY ON HIM IF THE DOGS NOT MOVING AND BARKING IN THE SAME SPOT.

SOME GUYS USE THAT 1 MINUTE RULE TO THEIR ADVANTAGE. HECK IT HAS ALOT OF PEOPLE SCARED TO EVEN STRIKE THEIR DOG IN THE MINUTE FOR FEAR OF BEING MINUSED FOR BABBLING.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: jasper,al
Posts: 751

to me there isn't much any difference in ukc and other kc around here. besides a few rules. I know the rules or if a ? comes up can use common sense to fumble through it. just wish the babbling rule was easier to determine. "barking where no track is evident" is screwed up way to word it. I don't know of any place a coon couldn't go. and its just a difference in opinion.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

Now let me say I don't comp hunt but I'm going to start this year. Been doing practice hunts with a couple of buddies.

In my eyes a babbler babbles to keep up. Kinda like your little brother when you were kids sayin "hey guys wait for me." And the way I read the rules (which I'm still learning) you can't be minused for your dog babbling for the first minute after being cut. After that the Judge should be minusing for babbling. Am I correct on that?

Now the guy that had his dog on the side of the creek barking at the other dogs should've been minused if he didn't strike her by the third bark. Right?

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Mt. Etna, Indiana
Posts: 152

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
Now let me say I don't comp hunt but I'm going to start this year. Been doing practice hunts with a couple of buddies.

In my eyes a babbler babbles to keep up. Kinda like your little brother when you were kids sayin "hey guys wait for me." And the way I read the rules (which I'm still learning) you can't be minused for your dog babbling for the first minute after being cut. After that the Judge should be minusing for babbling. Am I correct on that?

Now the guy that had his dog on the side of the creek barking at the other dogs should've been minused if he didn't strike her by the third bark. Right?

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 791

In the midwest it is difficult for a guide to cut the dogs loose where a good strike dog will not open within 250 yards in less than a minute. That's two and a half football fields. A dog running at 9 miles per hour will cover 250 yards in a minute.
I've seen more dishonesty by judges using this rule to their advantage than by the rest of the cast. This is especially true in the other KC.

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Registered: Apr 2010
Location: jamestown,pa
Posts: 612

this babbling rule is the most confusing one to me. To be up to the judges opinion I think is wrong. I have had babbling dogs and honest strike dogs. I have been minused for what the judges opinion was babbling and I've asked to take a vote on what I've thought was babbling. I've seen dogs get struck right off the leash and not get minused after they shut up and I've seen dogs get minused for babbling and a couple seconds later all dogs were wide open right with em. One thing about this rule that has been very consistent is that it's never in the favor of the guy winning the cast.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: jasper,al
Posts: 751

right on jimbob

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Northern, Ohio
Posts: 266

Yep, this so called rule got me in the mojo hunt. Dog was running a track but judge decided he was babbling, then ran the track about 600 yards or better to a den. Seems more of a convienence tool to me.

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Registered: Apr 2010
Location: jamestown,pa
Posts: 612

quote:

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Originally posted by nkuhl
Yep, this so called rule got me in the mojo hunt. Dog was running a track but judge decided he was babbling, then ran the track about 600 yards or better to a den. Seems more of a convienence tool to me.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

quote:

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Originally posted by jimbob_walker
exactly, it's all about convenience. to many different opinions on what babbling is in a hunt. Needs a stone cold rule on how to judge it.

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Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Clay County-ky
Posts: 971

Worst rule in any registry here boys. I been saying it for years. There's no clear cut ruling to keep consistency here. Rule should be changed to say a dog struck within the minute must open every 2mins or until called treed or all other dogs are struck and then it goes back to the 8 minute rule. This would put some consistence rulings on babbling.

If I thought maybe he's running or maybe he's babbling I'd hold off if I knew he had to open every 2 mins, where I'd strike if I knew I had 8 to gamble with. Usually if you hold back on striking in the minute two or three more will bark to and your sitting with 25.

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Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3147

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
What would you suggest?
Unless you can smell a coon track it has to be someones opinion, and remember any call made by a hunting judge can be overturned by a cast vote.

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: FLATWOODS SOUTH GA
Posts: 76

The other kc has it covered the best I have seen as of yet.
Dog can not be struck for the first 55 seconds of the first minute unless it is followed by an immediate tree call. If a dog is struck by mistake. Call will not be accepted by judge. Dog will not be minused. Any dog or dogs barking in the last 5 seconds, of the first minute, will receive 50 strike points each. Any dog or dogs declared struck after any dog is struck within the last 5 second will receive 25 strike points. If no dog strikes within the first minute then 100 strike points will be awarded to the dog that strikes first, 75 for second, 50 for third, and 25 for fourth. After the first minute has expired.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 439

quote:

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Originally posted by MIDNITE BLUE
The other kc has it covered the best I have seen as of yet.
Dog can not be struck for the first 55 seconds of the first minute unless it is followed by an immediate tree call. If a dog is struck by mistake. Call will not be accepted by judge. Dog will not be minused. Any dog or dogs barking in the last 5 seconds, of the first minute, will receive 50 strike points each. Any dog or dogs declared struck after any dog is struck within the last 5 second will receive 25 strike points. If no dog strikes within the first minute then 100 strike points will be awarded to the dog that strikes first, 75 for second, 50 for third, and 25 for fourth. After the first minute has expired.

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