Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Pikeville,NC
Posts: 131

Have a pup here that will run anything that puts down a track but will fall off on a coon and tree it with style. Not sure if I should let him go or lay the hammer on the trash. He will hunt all night and will eventually fall off on a coon. he will not hunt or bark if he has a shock collar on. any ideas?

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: sugarcreekohio
Posts: 1341

some dogs if you start shocking them it will take the hunt right out of them and some it wont you cud try an with a very low stimulant = ive had pups freeze up on me they stoped run junk but wud not move after shocking them i had to go get them it all depends if hes realy tetermend or not if they fall of an tree coon they like coon better then wat thr running

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: canton texas
Posts: 709

I all ways put my e-collars on my young dogs when I let them out to just goof off [ without ever turning them on ] and I will let them do this for quite a while . soon they associate the collars with getting out of the kennel to play , and go nuts when I walk out to the pen and show them a collar . I feel it is a needed thing to go slow introducing a collar .
if you put the collar on them and then start correcting them the same day , they know that that collar is the culprit . I would just put the collar back on the dog without being turned on and leave it for a couple weeks . the dog might start hunting with it on again . and remember a little tickle works just fine on [ most ] dogs .

I love trashy pups . they show more promise than a young dog that doesn't , but seems like it is time to get the pups mind on coon only if it's falling in treed on a coon it is ready .

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Registered: Jul 2010
Location:
Posts: 55

Let it be.

For a pleasure hunter I know how irritating it can be, but in competition strike him in and handle him alone somewhere!

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Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Woods
Posts: 246

quote:

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Originally posted by Enigma
Let it be.

For a pleasure hunter I know how irritating it can be, but in competition strike him in and handle him alone somewhere!

---

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: tn
Posts: 667

For some it is only the end result that counts.
For others, it is how you reach the correct end result.
So the question is, which one are you?

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 950

If he falls off on a coon, that is the correct end result.

Lots of famous dogs made their names striking off deer and falling off on a coon.

I think you will never break this dog. You can slow him down or make him think about it, but when they have that kind of prey drive, you can wear out a shocker and a lot of switches and not get anywhere. Instincts always win.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1442

I have broke a few collar wise trash runners by just hunting the hair off of them and rewarding the coon treeing. Most get lazy at between 15-20 nights in a row and decide treeing coon sounds easier. If they start off the night running trash I either just take a nap in the truck or go to a different woods and hunt a different dog. I have two big valleys about 3/4's of a mile apart that I hunt. Lots of times I cut a dog in each one and then park inbetween and watch the Garmin. Been plenty of nights I have left one run and went to bed and come back for them in the morning. I do live and hunt in a pretty remote and unpopulated area though. It's 12 miles for me to the closest gas station.

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Last edited by kayapellijed390 on 12-06-2014 at 01:12 AM

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Smithville, Tx
Posts: 312

quote:

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Originally posted by kayapellijed390
I have broke a few collar wise trash runners by just hunting the hair off of them and rewarding the coon treeing. Most get lazy at between 15-20 nights in a row and decide treeing coon sounds easier. If they start off the night running trash I either just take a nap in the truck or go to a different woods and hunt a different dog. I have two big valleys about 3/4's of a mile apart that I hunt. Lots of times I cut a dog in each one and then park inbetween and watch the Garmin. Been plenty of nights I have left one run and went to bed and come back for them in the morning. I do live and hunt in a pretty remote and unpopulated area though. It's 12 miles for me to the closest gas station.

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

Back in the 80's I hunted a lot with a man who placed his Grand Nt. Ch. Crowding Billy and Finley River Dan bred dog in the top 10 at the UKC world hunt.

The dog was 6 years old I believe the year he placed.

Several of us collaborated and helped hunt the dog down getting him ready for the world.

If you didn't hunt him hard, real hard, he was a deer and coyote running sucker.

I mean would run for hours.

He was also a coon treeing machine when you had him wore slap out.

He has more prey drive than any two dogs needed, and hunting him was more like a job than fun.

But when you had him right, he was incredible.

I have seen him run deer for miles when he was 10 years old. He never was broke.

He also treed more coon than most dogs ever do.

Now that I am getting a little more age on me, my preference is for a dog that is easier to break.

I don't have to have one of those turbo charged dynamos to suit me.

But you might have something that you can win with, if that's your cup of tea.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by robert whitten
I all ways put my e-collars on my young dogs when I let them out to just goof off [ without ever turning them on ] and I will let them do this for quite a while . soon they associate the collars with getting out of the kennel to play , and go nuts when I walk out to the pen and show them a collar . I feel it is a needed thing to go slow introducing a collar .
if you put the collar on them and then start correcting them the same day , they know that that collar is the culprit . I would just put the collar back on the dog without being turned on and leave it for a couple weeks . the dog might start hunting with it on again . and remember a little tickle works just fine on [ most ] dogs .

I love trashy pups . they show more promise than a young dog that doesn't , but seems like it is time to get the pups mind on coon only if it's falling in treed on a coon it is ready .

---

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

Just hunt him, feed him coons, dont lay a hand on him or put a collar even on him. He will run them less and less, and eventually it will be a rarity. Personally I love a good deer chase that turns into a coon treein

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: DEEP FORK VALLEY, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 1815

Do you have a dummy collar to put on him? Make em out of a 1x n two screws through n old collar then file down the screws. Duck tape it on

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

All you have to do is get the dog to associate the correction with the scent. Doesn't matter what correction you use, but just so the dog learns that running such and such leads to such and such. A smart dog will be a lot more likely to see through some of your corrections and learn to get away certain misbehaviors. Fortunately for you I am sure you are smarter then dog. Read up on breaking bad habits and collar corrections. There are plenty of good articles out there and I even believe most shock collars now of days come with dvds.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

Be careful of trashey dogs and women if you don't you WILL start to like them both them.

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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: KY
Posts: 644

Well my personal opinion as a pleasure hunter Is this I hate a trashy dog. I dont mind a dog that will hit a lick or 2 on trash but nothing drives me more insane than a hound that will boohoo all freaking night on trash. Also as a comp hunter I would want a straight dog someone above posted strike him on the trash and handle him on the tree later. Yeah, that's the very reason I don't comp hunt if I got to strike in on trash and know its trash to win ill just keep pleasure hunting. But as for your question the dog can be broke form trash. I've done it a 100 times most recently with my brother in laws redbone gyp when he first got this dog it would run a gnat fart. But after introducing it to mr tri tronics not anymore. I ALWAYS beep a dog before shocking if they don't respond to the beep the get the juice!!!! After a couple months of this 99% of the time when I beep they come, because they know what is coming next... It took me about a summer to get her lined out but now it's either a coon or possum when she opens.. Took her out the other night she opened 5 times and I looked at the meat 5 times...Once in a blue moon she will run trash but nothing like it used to be. I know some of you will say a possum is trash well it goes up a tree. I don't like it but it's his dog and to each there own.... Break out the shocker I've never seen one that can't be broke. Trust me I have sold MANY a cull dog for BIG $$$$ after working with them for longer than someone who had given up on them. Many I have sold back to person I got them from for triple or better $$$$ than what I got them for.... It works try it. I have never seen a shocker take the hunt out of a dog if used properly. They may pout for 15 or 20 minutes but if they have that much desire to hunt they will get back at it GUARANTEE IT!!! Never seen it fail. By the way I have been doing this method of training for 25 years... I've never seen 1 I couldn't break you gotta be patient and give them time it's not gonna happen overnight. You gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run dogs are no different.

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

I'm with you hoot.Its sad that guys have to pack a trash running fool to win in a hunt.They will strike it on trash and pitch it on the tree.Then there proud like they really done something.Once they title the dog out what do they have?NOT MUCH.Not my kinda hunting.Not my kinda dog.I will break it from trash or it will have a rough life.If I win a hunt it will be the honest way with a honest dog.Jmo

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: burnt district MO/KS border
Posts: 787

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Snyder
If he falls off on a coon, that is the correct end result.

Lots of famous dogs made their names striking off deer and falling off on a coon.

I think you will never break this dog. You can slow him down or make him think about it, but when they have that kind of prey drive, you can wear out a shocker and a lot of switches and not get anywhere. Instincts always win.

---

I have to disagree with ya a little here chris........striking trash and falling off on a coon is still running trash in my book and I wont allow it. Your right on the other points though .

I remember a plott dog about 25yrs ago who could drain the battery on a shock collar and still out run coyote dogs on a yote track :/. First rate deer runner too. won a world hunt.

for years one of the best hunters in the country, DeWayne Edmondson, tried to break him. His owner at the time JD Nickels was too lazy to even hunt him. He was caught, tried, convicted, shocked, beat within an inch of his life more times than a politician can lie, and eventually sold. If dogs, yotes, and deer go to heaven I bet he is STILL running the hair off of one .

most can be broke though. all depends on how determined they are to track and how determined they are to bark up a tree. dogs bad about running fast game are just more track minded IMO. usually they sit down under a coon when they get tired. dogs who lean more towards tree minded eventually quit running fast game on there own or get broke from it if anybody bothers.

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: burnt district MO/KS border
Posts: 787

quote:

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Originally posted by Jackson87
I'm with you hoot.Its sad that guys have to pack a trash running fool to win in a hunt.They will strike it on trash and pitch it on the tree.Then there proud like they really done something.Once they title the dog out what do they have?NOT MUCH.Not my kinda hunting.Not my kinda dog.I will break it from trash or it will have a rough life.If I win a hunt it will be the honest way with a honest dog.Jmo

---

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: burnt district MO/KS border
Posts: 787

quote:

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Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
Be careful of trashey dogs and women if you don't you WILL start to like them both them.

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trashy women were always my weakness . trashy dogs on the other hand I cant tolerate.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12262

LOL If a trash running fool beats your coon dog, Sir you don't have a Coon Dog..

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

I said a lot but didn't say they beat me.

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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: central NY
Posts: 378

he'll be the best track dog you've ever seen. hunt him HARD. No shocker. he'll tire of the trash
OR hey, send him to me......the next time you see him go you will curse the day you did LOL. that type of dog has coons when they tree and will loose interest in the off game. no shocker ,no ruff handling he'll get it after a while.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

quote:

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Originally posted by anycolor4us
he'll be the best track dog you've ever seen. hunt him HARD. No shocker. he'll tire of the trash
OR hey, send him to me......the next time you see him go you will curse the day you did LOL. that type of dog has coons when they tree and will loose interest in the off game. no shocker ,no ruff handling he'll get it after a while.

---

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 950

quote:

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Originally posted by blackflagginit
I have to disagree with ya a little here chris........striking trash and falling off on a coon is still running trash in my book and I wont allow it. Your right on the other points tho.

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Larry, that is ok with me. Unlike a lot of people here, I don't have to be right all the time! And I'm not saying I am here. It takes all kinds.

I do know this though...I've had the kind mentioned above. When he was right, he was hard to beat. Kept you leash locked. When he was wrong, it was so wrong...but no amount of heavy hands, electricity or boot leather was going to wear him down...

With that said, if I had to tree a coon on the 31'st of January on a full moon night, with a foot of snow on the ground and I absolutely, positively HAD to look at coon fur and not a den or a "maybe"...that would be the dog I would want.

Even if he barked at something else along the way.

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