Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

Here is one I don't believe I have ever seen. Happened at a hunt.
Four dog cast.
Dogs A and B are treed and handled.
Dogs C and D are still running a track.
Cast is searching the tree of A and B. Before shining time is over some how dog A breaks free and goes to running dogs C and D.
Cast continues to shine the tree.
After 10 minutes are up on tree and before dog B can be recast to running dogs A,C,D , all three are declared treed.

The problem is how would you score or handle this situation with dog C ?
He was already handled at the original tree and the cast was searching the tree when he broke free .
We know dogs that leave a tree before being handled are minused.This dog was already handled.
Should he eligible to be restruck or retreed?
What about the tree he left?

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Well, I'm not sure of anything other than that dog A darn sure cannot be restruck or retreed.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

May not be right but I would score dog A on the original tree but delete strike and tree points on the tree with dogs C & D.

Dog A was handled at the original tree so it retains it's points (plus, minus, or circle) but was not released from the tree per rules and should not be eligible to receive points on the tree with dogs C & D.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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Surely the handler of dog A didn't have the gall to strike and tree his dog after it got away and left the tree. If he did, I guess I would prolly just scratch him right there for attempting to cheat everyone on that cast. You obviously cannot gain additional points by your dog being loose when it is not allowed to be loose. I'm not too sure dog A shouldn't be minused his tree points for leaving the tree in first place. As I see it, any dog that leaves a tree before the judge tells it too is either minused for leaving the tree or scratch for casting before being told to.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Dog A should be scored on his original tree and time should be called so the dog can be handled.

Before everyone wants me to quote the rule that I got this from I cant and I don't think anyone can find one that tells them what to do. This just seems the most logical to me.

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: sugarcreekohio
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if I was judge == dog ==a==wud get scored at the tree where he was first treed ==nothing == from there on till all dogs were handled an recast thrs nothing in the rule book about this == not unless it was done intenually ==but if the dog broke or chewed its leash he cud be struck in on the third bark with a line == that's the way I wud score it

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Last edited by AndyMiller on 08-10-2014 at 11:19 PM

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Registered: Mar 2008
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Posts: 3995

I might be wrong on this one, Im going to minus dog A for leaving the tree, he is still carrying his strike points and score him on the second tree just the same as if he had left before being handled.

The problem i have with calling timeout is that if dogs C and D are not treed they would be foolish to vote for a timeout so you create a situation where how you deal with A depends on what C and D are doing.

To further make a case for minus, had a situation a couple years ago where a dog had been handled alone on a tree and was left while another tree was being scored. When we returned to score the tree the dog was gone and only part of the lead remained. The ruleing was to minus for leaveing eventhough the dog had been handled.

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Last edited by john Duemmer on 08-10-2014 at 11:24 PM

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quote:

---

Originally posted by john Duemmer
I might be wrong on this one, Im going to minus dog A for leaving the tree, he is still carrying his strike points and score him on the second tree just the same as if he had left before being handled.

The problem i have with calling timeout is that if dogs C and D are not treed they would be foolish to vote for a timeout so you create a situation where how you deal with A depends on what C and D are doing.

---

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

quote:

---

Originally posted by john Duemmer
I might be wrong on this one, Im going to minus dog A for leaving the tree, he is still carrying his strike points and score him on the second tree just the same as if he had left before being handled.

The problem i have with calling timeout is that if dogs C and D are not treed they would be foolish to vote for a timeout so you create a situation where how you deal with A depends on what C and D are doing.

To further make a case for minus, had a situation a couple years ago where a dog had been handled alone on a tree and was left while another tree was being scored. When we returned to score the tree the dog was gone and only part of the lead remained. The ruleing was to minus for leaveing eventhough the dog had been handled.

---

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AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Registered: Sep 2013
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 112

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Surely the handler of dog A didn't have the gall to strike and tree his dog after it got away and left the tree. If he did, I guess I would prolly just scratch him right there for attempting to cheat everyone on that cast. You obviously cannot gain additional points by your dog being loose when it is not allowed to be loose. I'm not too sure dog A shouldn't be minused his tree points for leaving the tree in first place. As I see it, any dog that leaves a tree before the judge tells it too is either minused for leaving the tree or scratch for casting before being told to.

---

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

---

Originally posted by joey
Actually John I think you are correct. If I remember correctly Alan ruled that a dog that was treed and leashed at a split tree that chewed its leash and left would be minused. No different here.

---

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 08-11-2014 at 05:15 PM

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

quote:

---

Originally posted by john Duemmer
I might be wrong on this one, Im going to minus dog A for leaving the tree, he is still carrying his strike points and score him on the second tree just the same as if he had left before being handled.

The problem i have with calling timeout is that if dogs C and D are not treed they would be foolish to vote for a timeout so you create a situation where how you deal with A depends on what C and D are doing.

To further make a case for minus, had a situation a couple years ago where a dog had been handled alone on a tree and was left while another tree was being scored. When we returned to score the tree the dog was gone and only part of the lead remained. The ruleing was to minus for leaveing eventhough the dog had been handled.

---

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

So if going by John's Theory, my dog could accidently get loose before the tree is scored and I would only take minus strike pts. instead of strike and tree if its slick?

I always thought the judge has to say when to handle and cut the dogs.

Last edited by T Felderman on 08-11-2014 at 10:06 PM

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